-------- What do you think about this idea?

你怎么看这个想法？

You can still do your own stuff. But we look at it from this perspective of a— Let's call it an institution. We invent some kind of institution that could be our work. And the institution has this website, and the website is kind of this stream of stuff that you bring in.

你还是可以自己做自己的东西。 但我们从这个角度来看， 也就是—— 我们就把它称为一个机构吧。 我们发明一种机构， 它可以成为我们的作品。 而这个机构有一个网站， 网站就像一股流， 是你带进来的各种内容。

That gives you the freedom to do something or to just send in stuff, or you can also just write a little text. Or you can think about the institution. What could— what institution could that be?

这就给了你自由， 可以做点什么，或者直接发送内容， 或者你也可以写一小段文字。 或者你可以去想这个机构。 它可能会是什么——会是哪个机构呢？ 我有一个问题，就是—— 就刚刚有说三层，三层关系。 那我们如果说作为一个艺术家，我们是处在哪一个层面的？ 肯定不是，呃，那个基础机构。

I have a question, it's just that— You just mentioned three layers—three layers of relationships. So if we're talking about being an artist, what level are we on? It's definitely not, uh, that basic institution. Yeah. Okay.

对。 好。

Exactly. That's ex— now we're— it's— it's really nice that it kind of works out now. I didn't plan it that way.

没错。 那就是——现在我们——就是—— 现在这样处理出来真的挺好的。 我没这么计划。

Um, that be exactly get from the point of theoretically talking about something to practically doing it and being it. So I told you we as artists need to go to this middle layer. Where the institutions and the rules and the, the, the, the standards and everything are. And we're— we're literally doing that.

嗯，就是要准确地从那个点出发， 从理论上谈论某件事， 到实际去做、去成为它。 所以我跟你说过，我们作为艺术家， 需要走到这个中间层。 那里有机构、有规则， 还有那些、那些、那些、那些标准， 以及所有这些东西。 而我们——我们真的就在做这个。

Because yesterday we— I couldn't manage and together we couldn't manage to get together and start working on something. Because it would have been wrong. Why? You're already doing that every day. You're painting, you're— you're doing your stuff. And I want you to learn or to think about, not learn. I want you to think about this other layer.

因为昨天我们——我没法应付， 而且我们俩一起也没法应付， 聚在一起开始做某个东西。 因为那样会是错的。 为什么？你每天都已经在做这个了。 你在画，你——你在做你的事。 我希望你学会， 或者去思考——不是"学会"。 我希望你去想另一层面。

And now we're actually doing it. The website is then kind of a visible part, but it represents the, the institution that is in the middle. It represents the concept that we just now developed. Of this institution that collects artistic material, videos, or not even artistic, like just memes or, or, or videos

而现在我们真的在做了。 那网站就算是一个可见的部分， 但它代表着那个、那个机构， 也就是处在中间的那个。 它代表着那个概念， 就是我们刚刚发展出来的。 关于这个机构，它收集艺术材料， 视频，甚至不只是艺术， 比如只是梗图，或者、或者、或者视频，

or funny stuff or, or sad stuff or, or vibes. Collects that, puts it together, and reframes it. Makes rules about it. How is it structured? How is it visible? Why is it there? How is it related to each other? What is the— what is the, the rule about which video and which text comes to next to each other?

或者搞笑的东西，或者、或者悲伤的东西， 或者、或者氛围。 把这些收集起来，把它们拼在一起， 然后重新定型。 为它制定规则。 它是怎么结构化的？ 它是怎么可见的？ 它为什么会在那里？ 它们彼此之间是怎么关联的？ 什么是——什么是那个、那个规则， 关于哪个视频、哪段文字会接着出现， 一个接一个？

We could also say we make five different streams. They are next to each other. One is with text, one is with sound, and so on. And then it's like a casino machine, you know? You randomly there is a text and a sound and a video and a— and an image. Aligned. And they're— and it's kind of— and— and it's every time it's different.

我们也可以说，我们做了五个不同的流。 它们彼此挨着。 一个是带文字的，一个是带声音的， 等等。 然后就像赌场机器一样，你懂吧？ 随机地，这里有文字和声音， 还有视频，还有——还有一张图像。 对齐好了。 然后它们——就有点——然后—— 每次都不一样。

Or something like that.

或者类似那样。

Is this— I know it's a little bit— seems a little bit abstract, um, because it's really, I guess, a new way of looking at things.

这是——我知道这有点—— 看起来有点抽象，嗯， 因为我想，这其实是一种新的方式， 来看待事物。

But, um, but. If you follow me a little bit, here. I think we can manage to do it. In the— within these days. And I think the most important thing is that you start to collect things. Either your own, you produce your own stuff, or you start to collect. Yeah? Really literally have a— either— I don't know how you— how we want to do it technically.

但是，嗯，但是。 如果你稍微跟着我看一下，这里。 我觉得我们能做到。 在——在这几天之内。 而我觉得最重要的是， 你开始去收集这些东西。 要么你自己的，你自己做你的内容， 要么你开始去收集。 对吧？ 真的，字面意义上有个——要么—— 我不知道你——我们技术上想怎么做。

Because, uh, um, I mean, images is easy. You can copypaste or screenshot them and just send them either in the group or something. Videos, I don't know if you can download all the videos from all the apps. I mean, from Insta— Instagram, for example, it's not easy to download video. You have to kind of screen capture them.

因为，呃，嗯，我是说，图像很容易。 你可以复制粘贴，或者截图它们， 然后直接发到群里之类的。 视频的话，我不知道你能不能下载， 所有应用里的所有视频。 我是说，比如说从 Insta——Instagram 上， 下载视频并不容易。 你得把它们截屏。

Um, but, okay, these are natural limitations. We just have to— yeah, you have to be— say, okay, yeah, this video we can't show. Um, I'll make one similar or I— I use an AI and do something similar. Or I take a screenshot from the video. Then it's just a, you know. So I would suggest that you start— that you have a folder on your phone

嗯，不过，好吧，这些都是自然的限制。 我们只能——对，你得—— 说，好吧，这个视频我们不能展示。 嗯，我会做一个类似的，或者我—— 我用 AI 做点类似的东西。 或者我从视频里截个图。 然后就只是个，你懂的。 所以我建议你开始—— 在你手机上有个文件夹，

or, or, or a— or a— or a— a kind of a— a like button that you— where you register the stuff. And that you start, um, sending it into the group and I will just— I guess download it. And, and then start to build the website. Um, except, you know, one else wants to build the website. Then we can do it together.

或者，或者，或者一个——或者一个——或者一个——那种—— 一个点赞按钮，用来——用来注册这些内容。 然后你开始，嗯，把它发到群里， 我就会—— 我想把它下载下来。 然后，然后开始搭建网站。 嗯，除了，你知道，另一个人也想搭建网站。 那我们就可以一起做。

I don't know. I do— I would do it with Claude, cowork. It's very easy to do. I can just say, make this— I really imagine this, you know, in the— in Macao these machine— the gambling machines with the— the three or five turning wheels. Yeah, lucky draw. Where you just lay out the bond. One of the bonded.

我不知道。 我会——我会和 Claude 一起做，cowork。 这很容易做。 我可以直接说，做这个—— 我真的会想象这个，你知道， 在——在 Macao 那些机器——赌博机器里， 有那三四个旋转的转盘。 对，抽签。 你就把那个 bond 摆出来。 其中一个被 bonded 了。

I could imag— but if you have a better idea, then we— we do a better idea. And really important would be the idea of the institution. What is it? Which— which— which, um, entity would do something like that? And why? And what kind of rules would it have? You know, that— that would be your job as well.

我可以想象——但如果你有更好的想法， 那我们——我们就做一个更好的想法。 而且非常重要的是机构的理念。 它是什么？哪个——哪个——哪个，嗯， 哪个实体会做类似的事情？ 为什么？ 它会有什么样的规则？ 你知道，那——那也会是你的工作。

Collect material and think about that. And tell the group. You can just post that. Or write something or— or have an LLM generate the text about it.

收集材料，然后想一想这个。 再告诉群组。 你可以直接发出来。 或者写点东西，或者——或者让 LLM 生成文本， 来讲这个。

I think— I think you need to ask questions now because I think it's a— it's— it's a— it's otherwise it's un— unclear. Ask questions now.

我觉得——我觉得你现在需要提问了， 因为我觉得这——这——这—— 不然就不——不清楚了。 现在就提问。 我觉得我现在应该基本清楚了。需要去做什么。 嗯。

I think I should basically be clear now. What needs to be done. Mmhmm. Okay. Cool.

好。不错。 对，但是呢，我还是就是以一种什么方式去呈现这种。 这种就是我做出来的这个东西。 呃，我就不明白这个点。 啊，哈哈哈。

Yeah, but I still want to present this in some way. This is something I made. Uh, I just don't understand this point. Ah, hahaha. Yeah, if you want to be the factory worker in the group. And not the— the director, then you can be the factory worker. That's no problem. We can assign roles. We can say the people who want to produce, they're like factory workers. They make things. And others are more like the boss. They make like decisions of how many things

对，如果你想在群组里当工厂工人。 而不是——不是负责人， 那你就可以当工厂工人。 这没问题。 我们可以分配角色。 我们可以说，想要做产出的人， 就像工厂工人一样。 他们会做东西。 而其他人更像老板。 他们会做决定，比如要做多少东西，

are we going to show in the— in the fair, in the Guangzhou big fair, or who might— which marketing budget are we going to have. And— or what is the strategy of the institution or something like that. Um, yeah, that— no problem. Sure. Yeah. And we can credit that. I mean, that's— that's no— that's no problem.

我们要在——在展会上展示多少， 在广州大展会上，或者谁可能—— 我们会有什么样的营销预算。 还有——或者机构的策略是什么， 之类的。 嗯，对，这——没问题。 当然。 对。 而且我们可以给这个打分。 我是说，这——这不——这不是问题。

I mean, if that's— if that's important for you, yeah. Can we recap maybe quickly about what we— we just explained? I think— yeah, I think I'm going to— I'm going— I think I'm going to write it up quickly in, you know, and then send it in the group. Like, I try to make it super clear. Um, and then you can also write back

我是说，如果这——如果这对你很重要，那就可以。 我们能不能快速回顾一下我们——我们刚才解释的内容？ 我觉得——对，我觉得我要—— 我要——我觉得我会很快把它写出来， 你知道，然后发到群里。 就是，我尽量把它写得非常清楚。 嗯，然后你也可以回复，

and say, no, I want that differently. Or I have another idea. And then can I— I can implement that into the idea. And, uh, I'm— because this is beautiful. Now we have all— all what we talked today. All what I said. The whole development of the idea. It's all in text. So I can just give it to an LLM and say, pick out— pick it out

然后说，不，我想要换一种说法。 或者我还有另一个想法。 然后我能不能——我能把它落实到 这个想法里。 然后，呃，我——因为这很美。 现在我们有了今天聊的全部内容。 也有我说的全部。 整个想法的发展过程。 都写在文字里。 所以我可以直接把它交给一个 LLM， 然后让它挑出——挑出来，

and formalize it. And then make a summary of it. And then I send you the summary. And— and it can make it in a way that you— that we all can understand the same thing, what we're talking about. And— and I want— I really want to revert back quickly to the level of trust that we need if we do that.

并把它正式化。 然后做个总结。 接着我把总结发给你。 而且——而且它可以用一种方式来做， 让你——让我们大家都能理解， 我们在说的是同一件事。 然后——然后我想——我真的很想回到 我们之前谈到的那种信任程度， 如果我们这么做，我们需要的信任。

Um, we. Should find a level where we can say, we trust each other. That we mean it good. Okay? That we are all here in order to do something interesting and to do something productive and to do something good. If we trust each other to do that, yeah, we don't even have to know each other. We just have to trust each other.

嗯，我们。 应该找到一个我们能说的层次， 我们彼此信任。 而且我们是真心的。 好吗？ 我们都是为了做某件事而在这里， 做有意思的事，也做有产出的事， 做好事。 如果我们信任彼此去做这件事， 那我们甚至都不需要认识对方。 我们只需要彼此信任。

That we want to do something good and cool. And if we do that, then I can take your idea and I don't have to be critical about it. I just use it. And you say, no, I want to be identified as the author. I say, yeah, sure, we'll— that's— that is affirmation. Instead of saying, no, no, the concept is differently.

我们想做好事， 而且很酷。 如果我们这么做，那我就可以拿你的想法， 而不必对它提出批评。 我只要用它。 然后你说，不，我想被识别为 作者。 我说，好，当然，我们—— 那——那就是肯定。 而不是说，不不，这个概念不一样。

No, it's okay. We'll build it into the concept. Okay?

不，没关系。 我们会把它融入到概念里。 好吗？

It's an experiment. Maybe we're going to fail. Because it's also— it's going to be a little bit of work for me as well. To— to build the webs— to build the system and shit like that. And maybe I can't make it until Sunday. But I'll— I'll be— I'll— I'll make a— I'll— I'll find a way to do it. And if I can't, if I'm overwhelmed,

这是一个实验。 也许我们会失败。 因为这也——也会有一点点 对我来说也是工作。 去——去搭建网络——去搭建系统， 之类的。 也许我到周日才能做完。 但我会——我会——我会——我会做一个—— 我会——我会找到办法去做。 如果我做不到，如果我感到不堪重负，

maybe someone of you can— can take over or can assist or will work together. Okay, then all we have to do is we have to ask if someone has a veto. Do you know what a veto is? Is if you're extremely strongly against something in a group. Uh, you have the right to say no. I disagree. And then the group has to deal with that.

也许你们当中有人可以——可以接手， 或者可以帮忙，或者一起合作。 好，那我们要做的就是 问一下有没有人有否决权。 你知道否决权是什么吗？ 就是如果你对某件事极其强烈地反对， 在一个群组里。 呃，你有权说不。 我不同意。 然后群组就得处理这个问题。

It doesn't mean that you have— that then the veto will be followed. But it means that you have the right to say that. And the group has to listen. And has to include the veto into the discussion. So is anybody here who says, no, that's not what I want.

这并不意味着你—— 否决权就会被执行。 但这意味着你有权利 这么说。 而且群组必须倾听。 并且必须把否决权纳入 讨论之中。 所以这里有没有人说，不， 那不是我想要的。

Okay. Then I take that. Okay, you can still, if you have— if you— if you need a little bit more time and then you're like, oh, no, no, no, no. Then you post it on the group. Okay? But I have to say, again, the veto means not that the whole group is then not going to do that. It means that the group is going to listen,

好。 那我就接受。 好，你仍然可以，如果你有—— 如果你——如果你需要再多一点时间 然后你就会说，哦，不不不不。 那你就把它发到群里。 好吗？ 但我还是得说， 否决权并不意味着整个群组 就不会去做。 它意味着群组会倾听，

is going to discuss, and then it's going to decide. Yeah? Okay? Cool. I think, uh, if there's nothing else, we can— oh, no, you're here. Bye. Sorry. Got work till 4:30. It's no problem. We have, uh, the whole documentation. And you can have it. If you want to. Okay. Of course. Good. Thank you so much for listening.

会讨论， 然后再做决定。 对吧？ 好吗？ 行。 我觉得，呃，如果没有别的事， 我们可以——哦不，你在这儿。 拜拜。 抱歉。 我工作到4:30。 没问题。 我们有，呃，完整的文档资料。 你可以拿着。 如果你愿意的话。 好。 当然。 好。 非常感谢你的聆听。

It's been a joy to talk to you. And, um, I'll see you tomorrow. Uh, 2:30. Okay. And thanks for— for the ones who said, uh, that they didn't come. Um, and then— or came later. That was very nice.

和你聊天很愉快。 然后，嗯，我们明天见。 呃，2:30。 好。 也谢谢——谢谢那些说过， 呃，他们没来的人。 嗯，然后——或者后来才来的。 那真的很好。

Cool. Oh. Oh.

行。 哦。 哦。

UBERMORGEN. Tell me if you can— if I should make it smaller or if it's— if it works for you from the— from the size. Maybe I'll do it, uh, I can make it. The thing is, uh, maybe like that. Still good? Yeah. Okay. I— I just want you to have enough time to read. Okay. Um, good. So, so I'm going to show you, um,

UBERMORGEN。 告诉我你能不能—— 如果我要把它做得更小一些 或者如果它——如果这样对你来说可以 从——从尺寸上来说。 也许我会这么做，呃， 我可以做出来。 问题是，呃，可能就像那样。 还可以吗？ 嗯。 好。 我——我只是想让你有足够的时间 来读一读。 好。 嗯，好。 所以，所以我要给你看，嗯，

this exhibition. It's called "Smooth." So, like, silky smooth here. That's the— these are the characters.

这个展览。 它叫"Smooth"。 所以，就像这里这种丝滑的平滑感。 那就是——这些是角色。

Um, let's go back to the— To the home. Uh, where is it? I want to go just a second, please. I want to get rid of that.

嗯，我们回到—— 回到主页。 呃，在哪儿呢？ 我想去一下，麻烦了。 我想把那个去掉。

Uh, this. Oh, yeah, exactly. So, yeah. Smooth.

呃，这个。 哦，对，没错。 所以，是的。 Smooth。

So this is our first, um, kind of bigger exhibition in China. We had a lot in the last 15 years. We had a lot of shows. In China. But, like, in group shows. And the funny thing was that I never understood sometimes in which museum it was, because we would just send something that we'd ask, like, uh,

所以这是我们第一个，嗯，算是比较大的展览 在中国。 过去15年里我们办过很多。 我们有很多展览。 在中国。 但是，比如说，是团体展。 有趣的是，我从来没弄明白 有时候是在哪个博物馆， 因为我们只是寄出一些东西 然后我们会问，比如说，呃，

we would like to invite you for a show, um, we would like to have this video work and then we'd be like, yeah, okay, they send a contract, they pay something, and we send the video. And then I would look on the internet and, like, where is this museum? And I couldn't even find the city because I didn't understand the address

我们想邀请你来参加展览， 嗯，我们想让这个视频作品 然后我们就会说，嗯，好， 他们会寄合同，付一笔钱， 然后我们把视频寄出去。 然后我会在网上查看 比如说，这个博物馆在哪里？ 而且我甚至找不到城市 因为我不了解地址

for my— So literally we had about 20 or 30 group shows, and I almost never knew which museum, where is which city, I had no pictures, no nothing. This is a very funny way of working as an artist. This time, I know exactly where it is, I know exactly where the museum is, you're going to also see it, or maybe you already know it.

给我的—— 所以说实话，我们有大概20到30场团体展， 我几乎从来不知道是哪个博物馆， 哪个城市在哪里， 我没有照片，什么都没有。 作为艺术家工作这种方式很奇怪。 这一次，我完全知道它在哪里， 我也完全知道博物馆在哪里， 你也会看到它， 或者你可能已经知道了。

So this is, uh, a threeroom show. The three rooms you see here. So the first room, I'll show you quickly, um, the first room is called, uh, "Suspended Servers."

所以这个，呃，是一个三间展。 你在这里看到的这三间。 所以第一间，我快速给你看一下， 嗯，第一间叫，呃，"Suspended Servers"。

It features these server racks. So these are basic infrastructure pieces, yeah?

里面有这些服务器架。 所以这些是基础架构的部件，对吧？

They— these are kind of, uh, uh. Frames where the servers are stuck in. So there's, like, I don't know, 20 or 30 servers in there. And then all these servers are connected with each other, and they stand next to each other, tuck, tuck, tuck, tuck, in big, big, big rows. Hundreds of these. Sometimes thousands of these.

它们——这些算是，呃，呃。 服务器卡在里面的框架。 所以里面大概有，我也不知道，20到30台服务器 在那里面。 然后这些服务器彼此连接在一起， 并且彼此挨着， 咔哒、咔哒、咔哒、咔哒， 排成一长一长的大排。 成百上千排。 有时甚至有成千上万排。

And in the servers, there's a lot of chips. Yeah? And they're all connected to each other, and then there is software that coordinates, yeah, how they work together. So they can, uh, they can serve millions and millions of requests in one second. Um, so you can see here, we hung them up, we painted them,

而在这些服务器里，有很多芯片。 对吧？ 它们都彼此连接在一起， 然后还有一套软件来协调，对吧， 决定它们如何协同工作。 所以它们可以，呃，可以服务到数以百万计的 请求，在一秒钟内。 嗯，所以你在这里可以看到， 我们把它们挂起来，还给它们上了颜色，

so it's also a painting work. It's kind of a sculptural painting work. You can see here. Um, so this is a closeup. I will— we'll see it then on site, and I'm interested how you see the difference then from the pictures to the— to the thing. And the second one is a— is a completely different work. It's a sculptural, in a way.

所以这也是一种绘画作品。 有点像雕塑式的绘画作品。 你在这里可以看到。 嗯，所以这是特写。 我会——我们到现场再看看， 我也很好奇你会怎么看到它们之间的区别， 从照片到——到实物。 第二个是——是完全不同的一件作品。 从某种意义上说，它是雕塑。

It's a sound installation with a sculpture. It's a 4by4 meter bed in a very large space, and there is a sound coming out. And the sound, you will see it, you can— you can put your ear on it. Uh, it's a 6minute composition, and it features basically sounds or emulated sounds from the servers. Because, uh, have you ever seen a server room

它是一个带雕塑的声音装置。 这是一个4×4米的底座，放在一个很大的空间里， 而且有声音从里面传出来。 而这个声音，你会看到的，你可以—— 你可以把耳朵贴近它。 呃，这是一个6分钟的构图， 它基本上包含声音，或者说模拟的声音， 来自这些服务器。 因为，呃，你见过一个服务器房间吗，

and have you ever been in a server room in a data center? How it sounds?

你有没有在某个服务器房间里待过， 在数据中心里？ 它听起来是什么样？

It has this— It's very loud sometimes because there are fans, there's a lot of, uh, airflow that needs to go. Um, the— the chips are extremely hot, so there needs to be a lot of ventilation. And there's also very loud, everything. So there is sound coming out of this one. That is actually— Normally coming out of this, yeah?

它有这种—— 有时候特别吵， 因为有风扇，还有很多，呃，风流， 需要排出去。 嗯，这些——这些芯片非常烫， 所以需要大量通风。 而且一切都非常吵。 所以这个会发出声音。 那其实—— 通常是从这个发出来的，对吧？

Kind of. So here is the—

差不多是这样。 所以这里是——

And the sculpture is especially designed— designed by AI, technically. It's an engineering piece because, uh, there is two sound sources, and inside there are a lot of kind of structures and holes, so the sound can travel in a special way. Yeah? So when you're here, it sounds very different than to be here or to be over there or there.

而这件雕塑是特别设计的—— 技术上是由AI设计的。 这是一件工程作品， 因为，呃，这里有两个声音源， 里面有很多结构， 还有洞， 所以声音可以以特殊的方式传播。 对吧？ 所以当你在这里时，声音会非常不同， 和你在这里、在那里或在那里相比。

And then the third piece is this, uh, room with, uh, different videos. Video works. And this absolutely ridiculous sculpture. Very stupid sculpture. Actually, I tell you, yeah, don't tell anybody else. We wanted to just put the— what we wanted to do is we wanted to put a carpet— a big, it's 4 by 10 meters,

然后第三件作品是这个，呃， 一个有，呃，不同视频的房间。 视频也能用。 还有这座简直离谱的雕塑。 非常愚蠢的雕塑。 其实我跟你说，嗯， 别告诉别人。 我们只是想把—— 我们想做的是， 我们想铺一条地毯——一条很大的， 尺寸是4×10米，

a big carpet in here. So people could sit down or lay down and just watch the videos. But the carpet just didn't work. Yeah? And it was like 2 days before the opening. And we were like, hmm, that does not work. And so— so we were like, okay, we have to do something with it. And so my daughter, Billie,

把一条大地毯放在这里。 这样人们就能坐下来，或者躺下来， 然后就看视频。 但地毯就是不行。 对吧？ 而且大概还有两天， 就要开幕了。 我们就想，嗯， 这不行。 所以——所以我们就说， 好，我们得想办法处理它。 于是我女儿Billie，

and me, we were setting this show up. We looked at each other,

还有我，我们在筹备这个演出。 我们互相看了一眼，

and we were like, I think we should just, you know, make a sculpture out of it. And this is really not the artists we are. This is— this is the opposite of how we work. This is, for me, how stupid artists work. Like, oh, yeah, make a— take a car. Like, make a car and make it fat ha ha ha. It's so dumb, yeah?

然后我们说，我觉得 我们就应该，你知道， 把它做成一件雕塑。 而这其实根本不是我们想要的艺术家。 这——这正好相反， 和我们的工作方式相反。 对我来说，这就是 艺术家做事的那种愚蠢。 比如说，哦，对， 做个——拿一辆车。 就是，做一辆车， 然后把它弄得很胖，哈哈哈。 太蠢了，对吧？

But— but I'm— I'll tell you, um, I'll tell you why we did this. So first we're going to look quickly at these videos. And we're going to— let's— we're going to switch over to the videos in a minute.

但是——但是我—— 我跟你说，呃， 我告诉你我们为什么这么做。 所以首先我们要快速看一下 这些视频。 然后我们要—— 我们——我们要切换到 视频，马上就切。

Um, so this is basically the exhibition. And now you can hear how— have a look at the videos.

嗯，所以这基本上是 展览。 现在你可以听到 怎么——去看看这些视频。

Now I can tell you about the videos. Um, the basic idea of the videos is— because social media today, um, so WeChat moments or, uh, Dojun or how do you call it, TikTok thing. Douyin. Douyin. And, uh, Red Note and so on. Like 10, 15 years ago, people would use social media to, uh, to show what they are doing,

现在我可以跟你说 这些视频的情况。 嗯，这些视频的基本想法是—— 因为如今社交媒体 嗯，比如WeChat moments 或者，呃，Dojun 或者你怎么叫它， TikTok那种东西。 Douyin。 Douyin。 还有，呃，Red Note 等等。 大概10、15年前， 人们会用社交媒体 来，呃，展示 他们在做什么，

or the food they ate, or when they went to a holiday, stuff like that. And they publish it for their friends. Yeah? So you and you and you can see, oh, he went to the holiday there and, oh, with the little child and shit like that. Social media is not like that anymore. It's— either it's parasocial,

或者他们吃的食物， 或者他们去度假的时候， 诸如此类。 然后他们会发布这些内容 给他们的朋友。 对吧？ 所以你、你、你 就能看到，哦，他去了 那边度假 还有，哦，带着小孩 之类的东西。 现在的社交媒体不是那样了。 它——要么是偏社会性的，

you know what that means? Parasocial. It means a relate— that you're— it's very strong in China. It's all these, uh, influencers and video streamers. They're basically parasocial relationships. So you watch this person and they're like a star, and you— you think that you have a relationship to them,

你知道这是什么意思吗？ 偏社会性。 它的意思是把关系—— 就是你——它在很强的程度上 在中国很强。 就是这些，呃，网红 和视频直播主。 基本上都是偏社会性的关系。 所以你看到这个人 他就像个明星一样， 然后你——你会觉得 你和他有一段关系，

but you— you have a relationship to them, but they don't have a relationship to you. They're like pop stars. They don't know that you exist, really. And they don't care. And they shouldn't. And so this is— this is called a parasocial relationship to a star that doesn't know who you are. And the other way is basically

但你——你确实和他有关系， 可他和你没有关系。 他们就像流行明星一样。 他们其实并不知道你存在。 而且他们也不在乎。 他们也不该在乎。 所以这——这叫做 一种偏社会性的关系，对一位明星而言 他并不知道你是谁。 另一种方式基本上是

publishing stuff now on social media for yourself. Yeah? So you do these kind of fucking selfies and the fucking selfstyling things or the selfentertainment. Basically for yourself. And here, we took this thought of the parasocial and of the doing it for yourself, and we imagined that all these figures are standing,

现在在社交媒体上发布内容 给你自己看。 对吧？ 所以你就会做这种他妈的 自拍，还有他妈的自我打扮之类的东西 或者自我娱乐。 基本上都是给你自己看。 在这里，我们把这个想法 关于偏社会性的想法，以及为自己做 这件事，然后我们想象 所有这些人物都站在那里，

and that's why they're looking like that into— into you, that they are standing in front of a mirror. And that they're performing for themselves in front of a mirror. So the mirror can be a phone, or it can be an actual mirror. Yeah? But we are looking at it. So we are looking, basically they're doing

所以他们才会那样看起来 直直地——直直地看着你， 就像站在镜子前一样。 而且他们是在为自己表演 就在镜子前。 所以镜子可以是一部手机， 也可以是一面真正的镜子。 对吧？ 但我们是在看它。 所以我们在看，基本上他们在做

a video of themselves, and we are looking from here through— through that, right? Or— or a physical mirror. That's kind of the idea. But they think they're just doing it for themselves. Yeah? And this is the video that was projected onto the server. Onto the server racks. And everybody was asking me—

一段自己的视频， 而我们从这里看 穿过——穿过那个，对吧？ 或者——或者一个实体镜子。 大概就是这个想法。 但他们以为他们只是为自己做 而已。 对吧？ 这就是投影过的那段视频 投到服务器上的。 投到服务器的机架上。 然后大家都在问我——

I was not even thinking about that. Why is it a pigeon? What does the pigeon mean? It's like, I don't know. I don't care. It's a pigeon. It looks good. Or, I don't know. It's— it means something for a lot of people. So that's good. One of the ways that, uh, UBERMORGEN, um, which is the artist team that, uh, um, I, uh, work with,

我甚至都没想过这件事。 为什么是鸽子？ 鸽子是什么意思？ 就像，我也不知道。 我不在乎。 就是鸽子。 看起来很好。 或者，我也不知道。 它——对很多人来说都有意义。 所以这很好。 其中一种方式是，呃，UBERMORGEN， 嗯，也就是艺术团队 就是，呃，嗯，我，呃，一起合作的那个团队，

or that I founded, cofounded, uh, is doing— is a— is a— is a main thing that we're doing is, um, oh, now I— sorry, I forgot the train of thought. Um, yeah. We are interested in making art that does not have a message, that does not say something. That does not have a position. But art that gives you a lot of space

或者说我创立、共同创立的那个团队， 呃，正在做——是在——是在—— 我们主要在做的一件事是 就是，嗯，哦，现在我——抱歉， 我忘了刚才的思路。 嗯，是的。 我们有兴趣做艺术作品 但它没有信息要传达， 也没有明确表达什么。 它没有立场。 但这种艺术能给你很大的空间

in order to project your own feelings, your own thoughts, your own emotions into the art. A pigeon, a white stuff like that, and a pigeon is perfect. Everybody has an emotion. Everybody has an association. Everybody starts to think about it, or feel about it, or just aesthetically thinks, oh, this is disgusting,

让你投射出自己的感受， 自己的想法、自己的情绪 投入到艺术里。 鸽子，那种白色的东西， 鸽子就很完美。 每个人都有情绪。 每个人都有联想。 每个人都会开始去想它， 或者去感受它， 或者只是从审美上觉得， 哦，这太恶心了，

or this is boring, or this is beautiful, or something. But everybody reacts on their own. We don't tell you how to react. We don't want to tell you how to react. We don't tell you how to read our stuff. We want you to be as free as possible to interpret the stuff the way you want, and not us telling you—

或者这太无聊了， 或者这太美了， 之类的。 但每个人都会自己做出反应。 我们不会告诉你该怎么反应。 我们也不想告诉你该怎么反应。 我们不会告诉你该怎么读我们的东西。 我们希望你尽可能自由地 按你想要的方式去解读这些东西， 而不是我们来告诉你——

And it's a little bit different, like, how I lecture. It's like, I— I'm like a preacher, you know? Like a religious man telling the truth. And I don't mean it that way. I'm just very passionate about what I do, and I— I like to— to tell it to you, but I don't expect you to be so dumb to just think, oh, that's the truth.

而且这还有点不一样，比如说， 我讲课的方式。 就像，我——我就像个传道人一样，你懂吧？ 像个虔诚的人在讲真理。 而我并不是那个意思。 我只是对我做的事情非常热情， 而且我——我喜欢——把它讲给你听， 但我不指望你会那么蠢， 去想着：哦，那就是真相。

I know that you're much more critical. That you think, yeah, yeah, okay, it's interesting, he has a lot of experience, he's successful with what he does, so it's good to listen, and it's maybe good to learn something, so to take something, but you have to be very critical too. I'm an old guy. You know?

我知道你更批判。 你会想：对对，好吧， 挺有意思，他经验很丰富， 他做的事情很成功， 所以听一听是好事， 也许能学到点东西也挺好， 所以你可以拿点东西， 但你也必须非常批判。 我是个老头。 你懂吧？

But that's why I work with my daughters. Because they're young. They're at your age. They know how vibes work. They know the shit. They— they— and they work with— we work together now.

但这就是我和我女儿们一起工作的原因。 因为她们还年轻。 她们和你一样大。 她们知道"氛围"是怎么运作的。 她们懂得那些鬼东西。 她们——她们——而且她们会和—— 我们现在一起合作。

Anyway, um, um. So now I explain the whole thing. So the concept— the— the concept comes from the idea of ugliness. Yeah? Something that is the opposite of beautiful. The opposite of nice. It's ugly. Because we were looking at the world and that comes from my daughter, Billie. She was looking at the world

总之，嗯，嗯。 所以现在我把整件事解释一下。 所以这个概念——这——这个概念来自于 "丑陋"的概念。 对吧？ 也就是美的对立面。 美好的对立面。 它是丑的。 因为我们看待这个世界时， 这个观点来自我女儿 Billie。 她看着这个世界，

and she said, why are all the rightwing people— now we're talking not about China, I'm talking about the USA and about Europe— in Europe and in the US we have a lot of very strong people who are politically on a— on a spectrum that is very, very right. Right. Very right. I mean, very totalitarian. Very brutal.

她说：为什么所有右翼的人 ——现在我们说的不是中国， 我说的是美国和欧洲—— 在欧洲和美国， 有很多非常强势的人 在政治上处在——处在一种光谱上， 那个光谱非常非常右。 右。非常右。 我是说，非常极权。 非常残暴。

Very against, for example, foreigners, uh, uh, against black people, against anybody who is not their culture, but it's not definable what this culture is. Anyway, I don't want to go too deep into that. It's not about that. It's more about the aesthetics of these positions and these people. And these aesthetics are ugly.

比如说，非常反对外国人， 呃，呃，反对黑人， 反对任何不属于他们文化的人， 但这种文化的定义并不明确。 总之，我不想讲得太深入， 不想深入到那里。 这不是重点。 更多是这些立场的审美， 以及这些人的立场。 而这些审美是丑的。

You go back, uh, 18, 90 years, to European fascism. It was very aesthetic. Yeah? They had, uh, uh, uh, uh, the Italians. The Italians are always very stylish. Yeah? So also their worst that they did, their worst political thing they did, it was very, very stylish. And even the Germans were very stylish.

你回到，呃，18、90年前， 回到欧洲法西斯主义。 它非常审美化。 对吧？ 他们有，呃，呃，呃，呃， 意大利人。 意大利人一向很时髦。 对吧？ 所以他们做过的最糟的事， 他们做过的最糟的政治举动， 也非常非常时髦。 甚至德国人也非常时髦。

They did horrible things, but with a lot of style. Horrible. Yeah? Don't get me wrong. But we were think— so I— this is the foundation of— now this is— you see where we come from. How far it goes. We think about how ugly these new rightwing people are. Like Donald Trump with his hair and his fucking orange skin,

他们做过可怕的事， 但风格很有格调。 可怕。 对吧？ 别误会我。 但我们当时在想—— 所以我——这就是——的基础， 现在这就是——你看我们的来历。 它会走到多远。 我们会想到这些新的右翼人是多么丑陋。 比如 Donald Trump 的头发， 还有他那该死的橙色皮肤，

and the women that are around him with all these operated faces that are really this surgically destroyed faces. Um, and we were looking at that and we thought, this is so ugly. Why is this so ugly? And then we switched it around and we said, oh, the world is so smooth. Yeah? You use your fucking phone

以及他身边的女人， 那些整张脸都被操控过， 简直像被手术切除的脸。 嗯，我们当时看着这些， 就觉得：这也太丑了。 为什么会这么丑？ 然后我们把它反过来， 就说：哦，世界是这么平滑的。 对吧？ 你用你那该死的手机，

and it's all so smooth. You go to the Apple shop but the Huawei or Xiaomi shop and it's all perfect. It's like it's all round and it's all kind of— there is no— there is no friction. There is no— no resistance anymore. You know? You— you order food, you order a car, a DD, it's like it takes two minutes.

一切都这么顺滑。 你去 Apple 店， 但 Huawei 或 Xiaomi 店， 一切都完美。 就像全都是圆的， 而且都有点—— 没有——没有摩擦。 已经没有——没有任何阻力了。 你懂吧？ 你——你点外卖， 你点一辆车，一辆 DD， 就像只要两分钟。

You have WeChat or Alipay. Whoop. You take the stuff. You don't even have to stop you can just do it in walking. It's all smooth. But the question is, where do the fucking emotions go? Where is your— where are your feelings? If everything is round, everything is sanded, yeah? Every experience is perfect.

你就有 WeChat 或 Alipay 了。 嗖一下。 你把东西拿走。 你甚至都不用停下来， 走路就能直接弄好。 一切都很顺滑。 但问题是，那该死的情绪去哪儿了？ 你的——你的感受在哪儿？ 如果一切都是圆的， 一切都被打磨得很平， 对吧？ 每一次经历都很完美。

Where is your anger? Where is your sadness? Because it's still there. But we want to know where it is. So we built this extremely smooth. That's why it's so boring. We don't usually— I— I could— if you look at— you can go to our website and you can see stuff we do. We do— it looks totally different.

你的愤怒在哪儿？ 你的悲伤在哪儿？ 因为它还在。 但我们想知道它在哪儿。 所以我们把它建得极其顺滑。 所以才会这么无聊。 我们通常不会——我——我可以—— 如果你看——你可以去我们的网站， 你就能看到我们做的东西。 我们做的——看起来完全不一样。

Yeah? This is boring. It's disgusting. I took the Apple shop and I said to AI, I told the AI, create a website that looks exactly the same, visually and structurally, like the Apple shop. That's why it's so boring. And that's why the whole exhibition is boring. And if someone like you who are critical walks into the exhibition

对吧？ 这很无聊。 很恶心。 我拿了 Apple 的店， 我对 AI 说， 我告诉 AI：做一个网站， 在视觉和结构上看起来完全一样， 就像 Apple 的店一样。 所以才会这么无聊。 所以整个展览也很无聊。 如果像你这样的人， 带着批判性走进这个展览，

without knowing that, you will think these artists are bad. They are really boring, man. Because you don't know that all these layers are beneath. The conceptual layer. The aesthetic layer. The research that we did. This is a project that goes on for years. Yeah? Billie started to think about this three years ago.

却不知道这一点， 你会觉得这些艺术家很差。 他们真的很无聊，兄弟。 因为你不知道， 这些层次在下面。 概念层。 审美层。 我们做的研究。 这是一个持续了多年的项目。 对吧？ Billie 是三年前开始想到这个的。

About the aesthetics of the rightwing people. And then it's an operation to turn it around. From ugly to smooth to— to this kind of new thing.

关于右翼人群的审美。 然后这就是一场行动， 把它扭转过来。 从丑陋到平滑到——到这种新的东西。

So—

所以——

Yeah, and— but that's exactly why— so there is an essay by, uh, by Gu. Yeah? He was the curator. He's a very interesting form of curating because we never met him before. And he wrote the text and he never talked to us. And the text was on the wall. So he did not do, uh, he did not work with us but that's good because we can—

对，而且——但这正是为什么—— 所以有一篇作文，呃，出自 Gu。 对吧？ 他是策展人。 他是一种非常有意思的策展方式， 因为我们以前从没见过他。 他写了文本， 但他从没跟我们聊过。 而文本就挂在墙上。 所以他没有做，呃， 他没有和我们合作， 但这很好，因为我们可以——

we are experienced artists we don't need anybody to work with us. Although it's also nice to work with curators sometimes. So we put his essay— that's his view on the whole thing— and then I put a context text. This is exactly explaining what I explained to you now. The ugly and the smooth and why we came there

我们是有经验的艺术家， 不需要任何人来和我们合作。 不过有时候和策展人一起工作也挺好的。 所以我们把他的那篇文章—— 那是他对整个事情的看法—— 然后我放了一段背景文本。 这正好解释了我刚才跟你解释的内容。 丑陋、顺滑，以及我们为什么会去那里，

and how it works and how it looks like. Or why it looks like that.

它是怎么运作的、看起来是什么样。 或者它为什么会变成那样。

And now you can maybe also understand, um, so it's a vibe, you know? You come in— you get in there and you have to get the vibe. Otherwise it's going to be difficult. And then you— after the vibe you have to, you know, think and feel. And then you have to process. And only then— Yeah, you can judge if you want to.

现在你也许也能理解， 嗯，所以这就是一种氛围，你懂吧？ 你一进来——你一进去， 就必须把那种感觉抓住。 不然就会很难。 然后你——在那种氛围之后， 你就得，你懂的，去思考和感受。 然后你还得去消化处理。 而只有到那时—— 对，你想的话就可以评判。

Artist is— this is the sound. It's too bad.

艺术家是——这是声音。 太糟了。

But it's much more, uh, uh—

但它要更......呃、呃——

It's much more, uh—

它要更......呃——

And it's six minutes so it— and it has a very different— you— you will experience it. But I'm really happy to give you this presentation because I really then afterwards want to talk to you how you— what— what you feel afterwards. When you see it, actually.

而且它是六分钟， 所以它——而且它有非常不同的—— 你——你会亲身体验到。 但我很高兴给你做这个演示， 因为之后我真的想跟你聊聊， 你之后是怎么——怎——你感觉如何。 其实就是当你看到它的时候。

Yeah, that's the museum we're going to go to. And then I also put on the— the WeChat propaganda. And this is also something. This is beautiful. Look at this. I mean, this is such a great work. It's by— by a graphic designer. I only met yesterday. For the first time, via WeChat. You're live. Huh? You're real live.

对，那就是我们要去的博物馆。 然后我也放了——WeChat 的宣传内容。 而这也是一件事。 这很美。 看看这个。 我是说，这是一件非常棒的作品。 它是由——由一位平面设计师创作的。 我昨天才刚见到他。 第一次是通过 WeChat。 你在直播。 啊？ 你真的在直播。

Blue. Yeah. The designer. Yeah. But I never knew who it is. And yes— and then I was told— and then I talked to her and she explained to me how she made that. Why it's— it's from— she took it from a— it's like— it's a really complex system. Anyway, it would go too far. So this is the poster that was designed.

蓝色。 对。 那位设计师。 对。 但我从来不知道他是谁。 而且是的——然后有人告诉我—— 然后我跟她聊了聊， 她给我解释了， 她是怎么做出那个的。 为什么它——它来自—— 她是从一个—— 就像——这是一个非常复杂的系统。 总之，这就有点过头了。 所以这就是当初设计的海报。

So we did this image in the back. The— the server, the tree, and the— and the water, and the person. And everything else was designed on top. Uh, yeah, this was AI. This— the graphic is done not by AI. This is done by hand. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, this is AI. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yeah, and then this is done.

所以我们在后面做了这张图。 那个——那个服务器、那棵树， 还有——还有水， 以及那个人。 其他所有东西都是在上面设计的。 呃，对，这是 AI 做的。 这个——这张图不是 AI 做的。 这是手工做的。 对。 对对，这是 AI。 对对。 没错。 对，然后这个就完成了。

Anyway, good. I think I— I think I want to stop now. Um, and I have a question to you now because— Yeah, first of all, questions or comments? Do you want to say something? Um, what's the vibe? What's the feel?

总之，挺好。 我想我——我想我现在要停了。 嗯，我现在有个问题想问你， 因为—— 对，首先，你们有问题或评论吗？ 你想说点什么吗？ 嗯，这个氛围怎么样？ 感觉如何？

Don't have to say anything. It's fine. Just want to give you an opportunity to say something.

不用说什么。 没关系。 我只是想给你一个说点什么的机会。

Sure. It's not taking it. He has a simple question. But that's the pitch. I mean, because— He says every country has its own context about the significance. I don't think that's— Maybe. I don't. I really— I mean, I really don't know what it means. I mean, it— I know it has this meaning of kind of peace or something.

当然。 它没有把它拿走。 他有个简单的问题。 但这就是主题。 我是说，因为—— 他说每个国家都有自己的语境， 关于它的重要性。 我不觉得那—— 也许吧。 我不觉得。 我真的——我是说，我真的不知道 这是什么意思。 我是说，它——我知道它有这种含义， 像是和平之类的。

But I don't— I don't— I don't know. Okay.

但我不——我不——我不知道。 好。

I— I love to explain stuff,

我—— 我很喜欢解释一些东西，

but also when we do the stuff we do. There is—

但当我们做我们做的事时。 也会有——

So there is so much value in— Having a team of people producing things that are not coordinated. So the— the videos— Yeah, we told— we tell her yeah, um, she did— let— let me show you quickly. Just to give you the idea. So, um, so we had also these videos. Yeah.

所以其中有很多价值—— 有一支团队去制作一些东西， 而这些东西并没有协调。 所以那些——那些视频—— 对，我们说——我们跟她说， 对，嗯，她做了—— 让——让我快速给你看。 只是让你有个概念。 所以，嗯，我们也有这些视频。 对。

And we— We don't show them— they're— they're— they should be loading. We don't show them in the exhibit. They were also very different ones. And we don't show them in the exhibition, but we show them on the website, for example. Because they're— they're nice. They're interesting. They're— they kind of match,

然后我们—— 我们不展示它们——它们——它们—— 应该在加载。 我们不在展览里展示它们。 而且它们也非常不同。 我们也不在展览里展示它们， 但比如我们会在网站上展示。 因为它们——它们很不错。 很有意思。 它们——有点像，

but kind of not. But that's the point. Um, so the Liz is the— the— the partner who did the video. The videos. And she just does it autonomously. So she might have an answer what the pigeon means for her. Yeah, but that's not what it should mean for you. It's just what— why she put it in there. Maybe it was an accident.

但又有点不太像。 但这就是重点。 嗯，所以 Liz 是——是——是合作伙伴， 她做了那个视频。 那些视频。 而且她就是自主完成的。 所以她可能有答案， 知道这只鸽子对她意味着什么。 对，但这不应该对你来说意味着什么， 对你而言。 只是——为什么她把它放进去。 也许是个意外。

Maybe it was a coincidence. Uh, maybe— uh, maybe she wanted it that way. Maybe she wanted to make everything with pigeons and then it was like, no, it doesn't work. We need faces. And then she tried faces and then it was better. And usually we really don't— um, she was also generating the whole exhibition.

也许只是巧合。 呃，也许——呃，也许她就是想要那样。 也许她想把所有东西都做成鸽子， 然后就觉得，不行，这样不行。 我们需要面孔。 于是她试了面孔， 然后效果更好了。 而通常我们其实不会——嗯， 她也在创作整个展览。

She was doing the AI. She was designing the exhibition. And then we took the plan and then we went there and we made it. And we made it the way we thought it was right. So then Billie made the mute— the sound. And we didn't send— send the sound to Liz and she said, no, that's not good or something like that.

她在做 AI。 她在设计展览。 然后我们把方案拿来， 然后我们去那边， 把它做出来。 我们按我们想的方式做出来， 觉得它是对的。 然后 Billie 做了那个静音——声音。 我们没有把——把声音发给 Liz， 她说不行，这样不好之类的。

We don't work like that. This is a level of trust within a team that I can tell you, if you can reach that in working together with people, that you do not have to discuss. You— we can discuss for hours certain things, but not the art stuff. We discuss politics, social stuff. Uh, uh, gossip. I love gossip, for example.

我们不是这么工作的。 这是一种信任的程度， 在团队里我可以告诉你， 如果你通过和人一起工作能达到这一点， 你就不需要再讨论。 你——我们可以讨论好几个小时， 某些事情，但不是艺术相关的东西。 我们讨论政治、社会方面的东西。 呃，呃，八卦。 比如说，我很喜欢八卦。

Or, um, yeah, pop stars. Or the newest— whatever. I call this a baseline. It's when— it's when we've— it's vibe. Yeah, that's vibe. It's when we vibe— we vibrate together on the same base— you know? It's like, okay, I like you. I understand you. I maybe— I respect you. Kind of— kind of. Uh, I disagree with you.

或者，嗯，对，流行明星。 或者最新——随便什么都行。 我把这叫作基线。 就是当——当我们——就是那种氛围。 对，就是氛围。 当我们一起感同身受——一起振奋的时候， 在同一个基础上——你懂吧？ 就像，好，我喜欢你。 我理解你。 我可能——我尊重你。 有点——有点。 呃，我不同意你。

But I trust you. And the trust is the most important thing. If I trust you, I know— because I know you're good. I'll let you do whatever the fuck you want. And I give you my stuff and you can do with my stuff whatever you want and you can release it. In UBERMORGEN, we have four people. And everybody can just release—

但我信任你。 而信任是最重要的。 如果我信任你，我就知道—— 因为我知道你很好。 我就让你想做什么都行，搞什么鬼都行。 我把我的东西给你， 你可以拿我的东西来做， 你想做什么都行，你也可以把它释放出来。 在 UBERMORGEN，我们有四个人。 每个人都可以直接释放——

you don't have to ask. You don't have to say, hey, is it okay? Everybody has to be like, yes, yes, it's okay. Or we make a majority vote. No, no, no. You just release it. And that's very powerful. Because it's punk. It's basically a— a— a— a dynamic that is very hard. And for others to counter. Because literally I will sit here and say,

你不需要提问。 你不用说，嘿，可以吗？ 不需要每个人都说，对对，没问题。 或者我们做多数投票。 不，不，不。 你就把它释放出来。 这非常有力量。 因为这很 punk。 基本上这是一种——一种——一种——一种动态， 非常难。 而且别人也很难反击。 因为说真的，我会坐在这里说，

this exhibition is done because of that and that. And Billie, on the next day, in another country, will say the opposite. And that is interesting how it then vibes with the world. You know? Because it's contradictory. But the world is contradictory. So you have to learn to— to deal with that and it's the best if you can actually live it.

这个展览是因为这个那个才做的。 而 Billie 第二天， 在另一个国家，会说相反的话。 这很有意思，它就会和世界产生一种共鸣。 你懂吧？ 因为它是自相矛盾的。 但世界本身就是自相矛盾的。 所以你得学会——学会去面对这个， 而最好的是你能真正去经历它。

You're very powerful like that, as an artist or as a human being. Even in dealing with yourself. You know? That you understand that you are contradictory person. You can do really bad things. And you can be a really, really wonderful person at the same time. And it's hard to deal with that. Sometimes you do wrong things.

作为艺术家，你就有这种力量， 或者作为一个人。 甚至在与自己打交道的时候也是。 你懂吧？ 你明白自己是个自相矛盾的人。 你也可能做出非常糟糕的事。 同时你也可以成为一个非常非常了不起的人。 而这很难去面对。 有时候你会做错事。

And— and you're a nice person. And maybe you don't want to do wrong things, but you— you want this thing and you take it away from your best friend. You know? And it happens. And if you cannot live with that, you are living a bad and miserable life. And if you can live with that, uh, with compassion and with honesty, kind of,

而且——而且你是个好人。 也许你不想做错事， 但你——你想要这个东西， 然后你把它从你最好的朋友那里拿走。 你懂吧？ 这种事会发生。 如果你无法接受这一点， 你就是在过一种糟糕又痛苦的生活。 而如果你能接受这一点，呃， 带着同理心、带着诚实，差不多吧，

uh, you're living a good life. And then— and then that transposes into being an artist. You can really do great art on great stuff in life. It doesn't have to be art. Uh, it can be other things. Uh, if you can do that. Yeah, so we— we decided to— to kick that out. Uh, but to leave it on the website, for example.

呃，你就在过一种好生活。 然后——然后这就转化成成为一名艺术家。 你真的能创作出很棒的艺术， 去做人生中很棒的事情。 不一定非得是艺术。 呃，也可以是别的东西。 呃，如果你能做到这一点。 对，所以我们——我们决定——把那个给扔掉。 呃，不过比如说，把它留在网站上。

It's good stuff. Right? It can be used for social media. It can be— this can be used for NFTs, for example. Yeah, we sell NFTs or we do collections and this could be a collec— a little— a mini collection, subcollection or something like that. But, uh, yeah, something else. Just write as a reaction or a question or—

这是好东西。 对吧？ 它可以用于社交媒体。 它可以——比如说，这个可以用于 NFT。 对，我们卖 NFT， 或者我们做收藏，这也可以是一个收—— 一个小的——迷你收藏、子收藏之类的。 但是，呃，对，还有别的。 就写成反应或问题之类的—— 就是他前面说的那种产品，比如 Apple、小米，他会说标准以后缺失的那种情绪。然后他自己又是用 AI 大模型来制作他的作品，为什么选择 AI？还有 AI 出的作品可以看到大部分都是效果很不错。就是效果好，然后就是画面比较，嗯，比较炫。

Like the products he mentioned earlier, for example Apple and Xiaomi, he talks about that emotion of missing the standards. And he himself uses AI, big models, to create his work, so why choose AI? Also, you can see that most of the AI products have really good results. The results are good, and the visuals are kind of—hmm—pretty flashy.

这种效果为什么要这样选择？ 就是故意的，故意追求这种效果的完整，还是说，嗯，有什么意义？

Why choose this kind of result? Is it intentional—deliberately aiming for the wholeness of that kind of result, or, um, what's the point? Yeah, it's— it's— it's pretty intentional, yeah.

对，这——这——这挺有意图的，对。

Because— You see, it's all gray. It's all white. It's all boring. It's all structural. It's all infrastructural. The only— the only colorful thing are the videos. But the whole exhibition is AI generated. It's just different AIs, but they are— everything is AI generated. And then there— there are humans commanding or steering the AIs

因为—— 你看，这里全是灰色。 全是白色。 全是无聊。 全是结构性的。 全是基础设施的。 唯一——唯一有色彩的东西就是视频。 但整个展览都是由 AI 生成的。 只是用了不同的 AI， 但它们——所有东西都是 AI 生成的。 然后还有——有人在指挥或操控这些 AI，

and feedbacking the AIs and— and prompting the AIs. But it's in UBERMORGEN it's become one thing. It's become a process that is unthinkable without it. Without the AIs. And we are moving very quickly because the AIs are developing so quickly. Every week, every two weeks, there is new LLMs, new, uh, stable diffusion models,

并且给 AI 反馈， 还——还给 AI 提示。 但在 UBERMORGEN，它已经变成了一个整体。 它变成了一个没有它就无法想象的过程。 没有 AI 的话。 而我们推进得非常快， 因为 AI 的发展速度非常快。 每周、每两周， 都会有新的 LLM、新的、呃、稳定扩散模型，

new sound models. And— and— and it's so quick. So that's also why we need to work with young people. Because— I mean, Liz is pretty good, but we are too— we are not adaptable. Fast enough.

新的声音模型。 而且——而且——速度太快了。 所以这也是为什么我们需要和年轻人一起工作。 因为——我是说，Liz 做得挺不错， 但我们太——我们不够灵活。 不够快。

And, um, wait, I have to— I have to—

然后，嗯，等一下，我得——我得——

I believe that you can use AIs extremely subversively. Yeah? So yeah, may— maybe— maybe use smooth things out intentionally, but you can also use it for the opposite. Because you have to understand— I mean, a lot of— a lot of AIs are— are also using censorship. Yeah? All the American AIs are using incredibly heavy censorship.

我认为你可以以非常颠覆性的方式使用 AI。 对吧？ 所以，是的，也许——也许——把一些东西做得更顺滑一些， 是有意为之，但你也可以用它 来做相反的事情。 因为你得明白—— 我是说，很多——很多 AI 也——也在使用审查制度。 对吧？ 所有美国的 AI 都在使用极其严重的审查。

You cannot talk— you can't do sexual things. You can't do political things. You cannot do psychological things. It's like— it's— it's— you can trick them a little bit, but they are really, really getting like these— these rail guards are getting so intense that— that it's— it's— that I'm always laughing because in Europe

你不能说——你不能做性方面的事情。 你不能做政治方面的事情。 你不能做心理方面的事情。 就像——就是——就是—— 你可以稍微骗过它们一点， 但它们真的、真的会变成那种 这些——这些"铁丝网"变得非常严重， 以至于——以至于它——它—— 我总是在笑，因为在欧洲

and in the US everybody's like, yeah, in China it's everything censored and it's so brutal and it's horrible and people cannot say— and I think, Jesus, guys, don't you understand that you are living in a fucking prison where you don't even know that you cannot do the thing? It's like a soft wall that they are in.

以及在美国，大家都会说， 对，在中国一切都被审查了， 而且太残酷了，太可怕了， 人们都不敢说—— 我就想，天哪，各位， 你们难道不明白你们正在生活在 一座该死的监狱里，你们甚至不知道 你们根本做不了那件事吗？ 这就像一堵软墙， 他们就被困在里面。

They don't see. It's like glass. They don't see the glass. They're like— but it's so tight. So— and we are specialists in subverting these kind of subver— censorships. And that's what I told you yesterday. It's called affirmation. We say yes to the censorship. We say yes to the rail guards. Because only then we can— we can understand

他们看不见。 就像玻璃一样。 他们看不见那层玻璃。 他们就像——但它太紧了。 所以——而我们是专家， 专门在颠覆这种颠—— 审查。 这就是我昨天跟你们说的。 这叫"肯定"。 我们对审查说"是"。 我们对"铁丝网"说"是"。 因为只有这样我们才能——才能理解

them and we can say we use them and we can turn them around with reverse engineering I talked about that in the beginning. And now this is all abstract and it needs time also to, um, to kind of learn these techniques or to— to use them. But I trust that all of you have these subversive or radical or punk or— or— or— or super creative capabilities

他们，然后我们才能说我们在使用它们 并且我们能把它们转过来 用反向工程——我在视频里提到过这个 在一开始就说过。 而现在这一切都变得抽象了， 而且也需要时间来，嗯， 去学习这些技巧， 或者——去使用它们。 但我相信你们所有人 都有这些颠覆性的或激进的 或者朋克的，或者——或者——或者——超有创造力的能力，

, um, to turn things around and I do not mean that in a political sense. This for me is not politics. I don't care about politics in art. I care— when I say subversion, I mean it structurally. I mean you look at the system and you think about how you can manipulate it and how you can do something that maybe it's not intended to do with.

嗯，去把事情扭转过来， 而我说的并不是政治意义上的那种。 对我来说，这不是政治。 我不在乎政治， 在艺术里。 我在乎——当我说"颠覆"时， 我指的是结构层面的。 我的意思是，你看着这个系统， 想想你怎么能操控它， 以及你怎么做出一些东西， 也许它并不是本来就要用来做的。

That you're not— that's not the intention of the system. And you use it differently. And if that is that you create exactly the aesthetics that the system wants and you contextualize it differently, so people who are smart or emotionally capable can actually read it. They feel it. And that's the vibe.

你不——这不是系统的本意， 不是系统的意图。 而你会用它的方式不一样。 如果你就是这样，你就会创造出 系统想要的那种审美， 并且你用不同的语境来呈现它， 这样聪明或情绪上有能力的人 才能真正读懂它。 他们能感受到。 这就是那种氛围。

You're not saying it. And— and I know there's a lot of Chinese artists who are very good at vibe. Because certain things, they're not allowed to say or certain things, they're not— they shouldn't do. And, uh, for example, I talked with Shang— Shang Paili, a very famous Chinese video artist. Um, I asked him 20 years ago,

你不是在说出来。 而且——我知道有很多中国艺术家 很擅长"感觉"。 因为有些话，他们不被允许说出来， 或者有些事，他们不——他们不该做。 然后，呃，比如说，我和Shang—— Shang Paili，一位非常有名的中国视频艺术家。 嗯，我20年前问过他，

I said, how do you do it? He said, yeah, it's no problem. I— I— well, you know, I just do. And then sometimes someone calls me. I don't even know who it is. And they tell, hey, that's not okay. And I say, okay, okay. And then he— he takes it away. And that way he learns how to navigate the system. But he does very subversive stuff.

我说：你是怎么做到的？ 他说：是啊，没问题。 我——我——嗯，你知道的，我就是这么做。 然后有时候会有人给我打电话。 我甚至不知道是谁。 他们就说：嘿，这不行。 我就说：好，好。 然后他——他就把它撤掉了。 这样他就学会了如何在系统里"导航"。 但他做的事情非常颠覆。

But it's not— he does it with numbers and positions and geographical systems and stuff like that. Um, yeah, I think he's political in a way. And he subverts the system because also of a political matter. But that's not my position. I don't care about politics. Privately I do. Don't get me wrong. But artistically I find it not interesting.

但不是——他是用数字来做的， 还有位置、地理系统之类的东西。 嗯，是的，我觉得他在某种程度上是政治化的。 而且他会颠覆这个系统， 也因为政治原因。 但这不是我的立场。 我不在乎政治。 私下里我在乎。 别误会我。 但在艺术上我觉得没意思。

Yeah.

对。

I have a question now because I've been intensely talking today and I enjoy it a lot. I really do. And I— I see that you are listening because you're— you're— you're— you're attentive. Um, but I don't know if you enjoy it. It's not the most important thing that you have to enjoy it. The learning doesn't always have to be enjoyable.

我现在有个问题， 因为我今天一直在非常认真地聊， 而且我很享受这个过程。 真的很享受。 而且我——我看到你在听， 因为你——你——你——你很专注。 嗯，但我不知道你是否喜欢。 这不是你最重要的事情， 你不一定要享受它。 学习也不一定总是要让人享受。

But yesterday we said that this is also a production workshop that we want to do. Now, as I told you, I'm not a person who follows rules. But, um, I like rules. And I like to do what I say sometimes. And sometimes I like to not do what I say. But in this case, I really want to know from you. We can go both ways.

但昨天我们说过， 这也是一个制作工作坊， 我们也想做。 现在，正如我跟你说的， 我不是那种遵守规则的人。 但是，嗯，我喜欢规则。 我有时也喜欢按我说的去做。 有时我又喜欢不按我说的去做。 但在这个情况下，我真的想从你这里了解。 我们可以两种方式都来。

We can now say, no, we really, really, really want to produce. And it can happen. That on Saturday Luke or someone from the department will say, hey, we need— we need to do kind of a little exhibition or I would like to do a little website, for example, if something comes out of the workshop. And then publish, you know, like publish it.

我们现在可以说，不，我们真的、真的、真的想去制作。 而且这是可以做到的。 比如周六，Luke 或者部门里的某个人 会说，嘿，我们需要——我们需要做一个小型展览之类的。 或者比如说，我想做一个小网站。 如果工作坊做出了什么成果的话。 然后发布，你懂的，就是把它发布出来。

Just put it online. Um, but it doesn't have to be. We can also now decide, no, we just want to talk. We just want to look at shit and talk. And learn together. What is your preference? What do you want? I'm good with both. Yeah.

直接上线。 嗯，但不一定非得这样。 我们现在也可以决定，不，我们只想聊聊。 我们只想看看这些东西，然后聊一聊。 一起学习。 你更偏好哪种？ 你想要什么？ 两种我都可以。 对。 两种展示的。 就是一种就是原定是周六有个小展览，对吧？就大家做点什么东西出来。 嗯。 然后他就说，或者是他做一个网站把你们的产出就投到那个网站上。或者是就不做类似的作品，就大家就看啊，聊啊，交流啊。 这两种你们想要哪一种？

Two kinds of presentation. One is basically supposed to be a small exhibition on Saturday, right? So everyone can come up with something. Mmhmm. Then he said—or he can make a website and post your output on that website. Or he doesn't do similar work; everyone just watches, chats, and exchanges. Which of these two do you want? We can make it super simple. You can just send me something. You know? And that's— that's it. And you can work for 20 hours on it or you can spend 5 minutes or you can send me something that you find on the internet. I don't care. I really don't care. Because that's what I mean. That's why I'm here.

我们可以把它做得非常简单。 你只要给我发点东西就行。 你懂吧？ 就——就这样。 你可以为它做20个小时， 或者只花5分钟， 或者发我你在网上找到的东西。 我不在乎。 我真的不在乎。 因为我说的就是这个。 所以我才在这里。

I want to teach you this kind of stuff. You know, that— that— yeah, it really doesn't matter. If it matters to you, then you do what you want to do. But it's not what matters to me that should matter to you. Do you know what I mean? That's why I ask you.

我想教你这种东西。 你知道，那——那——对，真的无所谓。 如果对你有意义，那你就做你想做的事。 但对我来说，重要的不是这个， 而是你应该重视什么。 你明白我的意思吗？ 所以我才问你。 就是也可以很简单呢，你就发给他你们找到的东西。 或者是你们自己想做也可以做。 嗯。 我觉得会一个小型的展览的表演一起。 做出了一点东西。

It can be really simple too, you just send him what you found. Or if you want to do it yourselves, you can do it too. Mmhmm. I think we could do a small exhibition performance together. Make a little something. Okay. Who prefers a—

好。 谁更喜欢一个—— 哈哈哈。

Hahaha. Small exhibition.

小型展览。 嗯。 其他人？

Mmhmm. Anyone else? Yeah. All the— all the voices.

对。 所有——所有的声音。 做个小展览。 哈哈哈。

Make a small exhibition. Hahaha. Favorite first.

先说最喜欢的。 好。

Okay. A small exhibition. Okay. Girls.

一个小型展览。 好。 女孩们。 欢迎交班。 交班后展现。

Welcome to the handover. Showcase after the handover.

我觉得像他说做一个网站有点像是，像是我们平时发一个两卷的那种形式，去分享一些东西。就像是分享图片啊，或者分享视频那种感觉。那这时候我们就算是，或者是自己做的，或者是我们找到一些比较好的，我觉得都可以。

I think what he said—making a website—is kind of like, like the format where we normally post two scrolls, to share some things. Like sharing pictures, or sharing videos—that kind of feeling. So at that point, even if we're, either doing it ourselves, or we find some better ones, I think both are fine.

可选择多。 对。 如果线下的话，他就报个100这种东西。 嗯。

There's more choice. Yes. If it's in person, he'll just offer something like 100. Mmhmm. We could do— we could do the work. There's actually— okay, that's an interesting thought maybe. We could do the work, um, we could say we do a website that is basically one endless scroll. And it's— it loops. You know what I mean? So we can throw in 10 things or 100 things and it could be images, sounds, videos,

我们可以——我们可以把工作做出来。 其实有——好， 这可能是个挺有意思的想法。 我们可以把工作做出来，嗯， 我们可以说我们做一个网站， 基本上就是一个无尽的滚动页面。 而且它——它会循环。 你懂我意思吧？ 所以我们可以放进去10样东西， 或者100样东西， 可以是图片、声音、视频，

everything. And it's just going to load— it's just going to go. You scroll down and it just loads like on fucking— on video things. Yeah. But with all the media. And you can put in anything. You can make your own things. You can— you can throw in things that you find and just like. And it's kind of our work

什么都行。 然后它就会开始加载—— 它就会一直在滚。 你往下滚， 它就会像在他妈的—— 在视频里那样加载。 对。 但会包含所有媒体内容。 而且你可以放任何东西。 你可以做你自己的东西。 你可以——你可以放进一些东西， 就是你找到的那些， 然后就随便点赞。 而且我们的工作有点像是，

is not necessarily the things, but it's the curation of the scroll. You know? And for example, we can decide which— which thing comes after which one. That could be our work. It could be like curatorial rather than making things. You know? And now I'll give you an art history reference. This is actually something

不一定是那些东西， 而是对滚动页面的策展。 你懂吧？ 比如说， 我们可以决定哪一——哪一样东西 放在哪一个之后。 那可以是我们的工作。 它可以更像策展类的， 而不是去做东西本身。 你懂吧？ 现在我给你一个艺术史的参考。 这其实是个东西，

that has been done 2005, 2006. It's called PostInternet Art. And these were artists who on Tumblr— that was the system at the time— was one of the first kind of scrolling websites, you know, like Instagram now and— and— and— and TikTok.

是在2005、2006年做的。 它叫"PostInternet Art"。 这些是艺术家， 他们在Tumblr上—— 那是当时的平台—— 是最早那种滚动式网站之一， 你知道的，就像现在的Instagram那样， 还有——还有——还有——还有TikTok。

Where— and for me it was very important to understand that now the artist goes away from producing images to curating doomscrolling or— or like— you know, like video— video and images. It was everything. It could be text. It could be video. It could be sound. It could be— it doesn't matter which. But it was just— and— and endless.

在那里——对我来说这非常重要， 要明白现在艺术家 不再只是制作图片， 而是开始策展那种无尽滚动， 或者——或者像——你知道的， 比如视频——视频和图片。 它是全部。 可以是文字。 也可以是视频。 也可以是声音。 也可以是——不管是哪一种都行。 但它就是——而且——而且是无尽的。

Now you say, yeah, yeah, that's we do that every day. But at the time it was revolutionary. Because until then, even like internet artists would just do websites or do a video or do a game or something like that. And they said, no, the artist and I— I— I also— I wrote texts about that. I published on that in books

现在你会说，对，对， 我们每天都这么做。 但当时这简直是革命性的。 因为在那之前，就连网络艺术家也是这样， 他们只是做网站， 或者做视频， 或者做游戏之类的。 然后他们说，不， 艺术家和我——我——我也—— 我还写过相关的文章。 我还以书的形式出版过相关内容，

and in magazines. Saying, the artists are just factory workers. They just deliver raw material. They're like— they're like a— they deliver like screens for the fucking iPhone. But the iPhone is actually the artwork and the person like Steve Jobs or whoever did the iPhone or the— the— he's actually the artist.

也在杂志上发表过。 我说，艺术家就是工厂工人。 他们只是送来原材料。 他们就像——就像一个—— 他们送来像给那该死的iPhone用的屏幕。 但其实iPhone本身就是艺术作品， 而像Steve Jobs这样的人， 或者做iPhone的人， 或者那个——那个——他其实就是艺术家。

The curators are the new artists. And today it's not even the curators anymore. That's why I talk about institutions. It's the infrastructure. And the infrastructure is institutions are part of the infrastructures. Yeah. This middle layer. They are defining the rules. They are defining who does what.

策展人才是新的艺术家。 而今天甚至都不再是策展人了。 所以我才会谈到机构。 是基础设施。 而基础设施就是机构， 它们是基础设施的一部分。 对。 这个中间层。 他们在定义规则。 他们在定义谁做什么。

So the director of an institution is basically now the— the— the orchestra— the— the orchestra conductor basically for a new level of art. So— so— yeah. Okay. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Fuck me.

所以一个机构的负责人 基本上现在就是——就是——那个"管弦乐团"—— 就是——那个"管弦乐团指挥"， 基本上是在为一种新的艺术层级做准备。 所以——所以——对。 好。 对。 哦，对。 操。

For me, it's also nicer because I'm a person who likes to teach, like, like loud and then quiet, and you know, like performance. Um, is this better? No? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, cool. But then I'll do it a little bit like that. Because I would like to see everybody, and not only talk to you but also talk to you.

对我来说，这也更舒服，因为我是那种人 喜欢教学，比如说，讲得很大声 然后又很安静，你懂的，就是那种表演式的。 嗯，这样更好吗？不好吗？ 嗯。 嗯。 好，太好了。 那我就稍微按那样来做。 因为我想看到每个人， 而且不只是跟你聊，而且也跟你聊。

Okay, um, good. So I talked, um, so yeah, exactly. So we talk about this third layer, which is this kind of hardcore infrastructure, yeah? Most people already forget about that, because it's not in your mind. Why, why would you think about that? For me, it's important because I'm absolutely fascinated.

好，嗯，很好。 所以我就讲了，嗯，对，就是这样。 所以我们会谈到这个第三层， 也就是这种很硬核的基础设施，对吧？ 大多数人其实已经忘了这一点， 因为它不在你脑子里。 为什么，你为什么会去想这个？ 对我来说很重要，因为我真的被它迷住了。

To me it's like, whoa, I like it. Thirty years ago I was already thinking about it, you know, like, you have to think about the communication infrastructure. There is a, there is fiber optic cables going through all the oceans, and there are thousands of them, and there are ships, there are huge ships,

对我来说就像，哇，我喜欢这个。 三十年前我就已经在想这个了， 你知道，就是说，你得去想通信基础设施。 有一种，就是光纤电缆穿过所有海洋， 而且有成千上万根， 还有船，还有巨大的船，

that have these cable, and these cables are not thick, they're like that, and you know the fiber optic is like a hair. It's, it's, it has the size of a hair. And there is technologies, like 30 years ago, you could send so much data through it, and today you can send 2 million more times because they developed software and light techniques

上面装着这些电缆，而这些电缆不厚， 大概就是那种，你知道光纤就像一根头发。 它、它、它有头发那么大。 而且有一些技术，比如30年前， 你可以通过它传输大量数据， 而今天你可以传到超过200万次， 因为他们开发了软件和光学技术，

so they understood, oh, we cannot only use black, we cannot only use white light, we could use the whole spectrum. We could use millions of colors, like, and then we can send, we can just send different colors and through every color can carry the same amount of data as just one color. So suddenly you have 16 million times more data

所以他们明白了，哦，我们不能只用黑色， 我们不能只用白光， 我们可以用整个光谱。 我们可以用数百万种颜色， 然后我们就能发送，我们只要发送不同的颜色， 而且每一种颜色都能传输相同数量的数据， 就像只传送一种颜色一样。 所以突然之间，你就有超过1600万次的数据，

that you can send through one hair that is crazy. But then humans have to, you have to protect this one hair. I mean, there's more of them. There's like, I don't know, 20 or something. And then it's protected and protected and protected. And then they put it at the bottom of the ocean. And for, for thousands and thousands of kilometers

能通过一根头发传过去，简直离谱。 但人类就得，你得保护这一根头发。 我的意思是，它们还有更多。 大概，我也不知道，20根左右。 然后就一直被保护、被保护、再被保护。 最后他们把它放在海洋的最底部。 而且还能延伸到成千上万公里，

through the Atlantic, through the Pacific, through the Chinese Sea, through everywhere. There are these cables. Imagine that. It's great. It's humans are crazy. Just to do communication on this, just to watch memes. Do you imagine that shit? Um, so we made a business, you know, like 100 years ago, 200 years ago,

穿越大西洋，穿越太平洋， 穿越中国海，到处都是。 有这些电缆。 想象一下。 太棒了。 人类真是疯了。 就为了在这上面进行通信， 就为了看梗图。 你能想象那种东西吗？ 嗯，所以我们做了一门生意，你知道， 大概100年前、200年前，

most people in China, people would farm, they would go to the field and make crop and rice and cattle and, or, or, or, or pigs or whatever. Yeah? And then you would have, uh, a municipality and then you would have a kind of a government organization on a certain level. China was always very highly, uh, developed

中国大多数人会去种地， 他们会去田里种作物， 种稻子、养牛，或者、或者、或者养猪， 或者别的什么。 对吧？ 然后你会有，呃，一个市镇， 接着你会有一种政府机构， 在某个层级上。 中国一直都非常、呃、发达，

in the, in the government field, but the population was, was, I think, mainly farmers, yeah? And this is the same in Europe, a few hundred years ago. So, um, think, just think, like the implication. Think from where we came from, and today we have a business model where I don't know, a certain percentage of humanity

在、在政府领域里， 但人口方面，我觉得， 主要是农民，对吧？ 欧洲也是一样， 几百年前也是如此。 所以，嗯，想一想，就想想， 这带来的影响。 从我们原本的位置出发， 而今天我们有一种商业模式， 我也不知道，人类有一定比例的人

is basically just there so other people can watch memes. It's crazy. And this whole infrastructure. Okay, now I went a little bit off because you can see for me this is like, this is so cool. This is like, it makes me, it fascinates me on a level that is maybe hard to understand for certain people. Because I'm not an engineer.

基本上就只是待在那里，让别人看梗图。 太离谱了。 还有这整套基础设施。 好，我刚才有点跑题了， 因为你看我这边就像是， 这也太酷了。 就像，这让我， 在某种程度上让我着迷， 这可能很难理解， 对某些人来说。 因为我不是工程师。

I'm not a technical person. I don't care about, about this on this level. Yeah? So this is the foundational layer. All these cables, all these data centers, but how do we connect these to, and that's the more, that's where we artists come in. And that's where a lot of things happen. And I call this the orchestration level.

我不是技术人士。 我在这个层面上不在乎这些。 对吧？ 所以这就是基础层。 所有这些电缆、所有这些数据中心， 但我们要怎么把它们连接到—— 而这就更是——这就是我们艺术家的作用。 很多事情都在这里发生。 我把这叫作"编排"的层面。

And now we have to kind of, let's split the screen a little bit.

现在我们得有点， 把屏幕稍微分开一点。

So we can at least see. Ah. So oops. Just a second. Organize it.

这样我们至少能看清。 啊。 哎呀。 等一下。 把它整理一下。

Yeah, like that, huh? So we have the, the orchestration level. That is where the routing happens. There is where it's aligned what runs. There is where a lot of kind of software in between runs. It's also infrastructure, I would say. Yeah? It's organization. It's protocols. It's rules. It's regulations.

对，就那样，嗯？ 所以我们有这个、这个编排层面。 路由就发生在这里。 哪些会跑，就对齐在这里。 很多中间的软件也会跑在这里。 我觉得这也算基础设施。 对吧？ 这是组织。 这是协议。 这是规则。 这是法规。

It's standards. 150 years ago, you would load and unload a ship by hand because there was no standard and then in the Second World War, or a little bit before, no, I think Second World War, there was the container. The container was invented. 20foot, 40foot. Standardized. And now you can put everything in a container,

这是标准。 150年前，你会用手机装载和卸载一艘船， 因为当时没有标准， 而且在第二次世界大战期间， 或者稍早一些， 不，我想是第二次世界大战， 当时有集装箱。 集装箱被发明出来了。 20英尺、40英尺。 标准化了。 现在你可以把所有东西都装进一个集装箱里，

you throw the containers on the ship, every port is organized that they can load and unload these containers. It's so much more efficient, yeah? So this is a socalled standard. The ISO standard is a global standard where you can apply for standardization. So the WiFi protocol. Are standards.

把这些集装箱扔到船上， 每个港口都被组织起来， 让他们可以装卸这些集装箱。 效率高很多，对吧？ 所以这就是所谓的标准。 ISO标准是一个全球标准， 你可以在这里申请标准化。 比如WiFi协议。 这些都是标准。

The K, this USBC stuff is a standard. Yeah? It's that, it's kind of an interfaces that things work together. And that's where it gets interesting for us.

这个、这个USBC的东西也是标准。 对吧？ 就是那种、类似接口的东西， 让各种东西能协同工作。 而这就让我们觉得很有意思。

So—

所以——

So in a way, yeah, between the two there's this middle layer. And this is important. This is where the machine decides what reaches you, what gets scheduled, what gets routed, what gets aligned with what. Which vibe is pushed to which body. Now we're coming back a little bit more concrete to the, to the vibe, yeah?

所以从某种意义上说，是的， 这两者之间有一个中间层。 而这很重要。 这就是机器在这里决定， 什么能传到你这里，什么会被排期， 什么会被路由， 什么会与什么对齐。 哪种氛围被推送到哪个机器。 现在我们回到更具体一点的层面， 回到那种氛围，对吧？

Which is so unconcrete. Which vibe is pushed to which body at which second. The surface only shows you the result. You get the meme or the video or the, so on. The base is only provides the power. Yeah? But the decision happened in the middle. We, I call it the orchestration level. It's like when a conduc, you know,

它其实并不具体。 哪种氛围被推送到哪个机器， 在第几秒。 表面只会给你看结果。 你会看到一个梗或者视频， 之类的。 底层只提供能量。 对吧？ 但决策发生在中间。 我把它叫作编排层面。 就像当一个导演，你知道，

an orchestra, and you have a conductor, and everybody plays, you need the conductor in order to coordinate all these people to give them the rhythm, to give them the, now you are going, now you are going, now you start, now we end, now it's quiet, now we go down with the sound and all. And that's interesting for artists.

一个管弦乐团，你有一位指挥， 大家都在演奏， 你需要指挥来协调， 让这些人给出节奏， 给出那种"现在你要走了"的感觉， "现在你要走了，现在你开始了"， "现在我们结束了，现在安静了"， "现在我们带着声音一起往下走"等等。 这对艺术家来说很有意思。

So here's the thing I want you to remember today. The power is not on the surface. That's not anymore. The power is not at the bottom. That's sealed. Yeah? That's already done. There are huge corporations that control it. Huawei is one of these corporations. They control a lot of hardware and a lot of, uh, infrastructure.

所以今天我想让你记住这一点。 能量不在表面。 现在已经不是那样了。 能量不在底部。 那是封闭的。 对吧？ 那已经完成了。 有一些巨大的公司在控制它。 华为就是其中之一。 他们控制了大量硬件， 以及大量的、呃、基础设施。

That's by the way, now I get a little bit political. That's by the way why Western countries have opposed Huawei and they said, no, we don't trust them, they have backdoors in the technology and they're going to spy on us because the Chinese are— they want to take over the world and they want to spy and shit like that.

顺便说一句，我现在有点政治化了。 顺便说一句，这也是为什么西方国家反对 华为，而且他们说：不，我们不信任他们， 他们在技术上有后门， 而且他们会监视我们， 因为中国人——他们想夺取世界， 他们想偷听之类的。

And the argument is not wrong, because that's what these corporations can do, but the American corporations and the European corporations all do the same. And these governments also do that. So it's basically just a fight between a power fight. But it's not an argument. Yeah? Yeah. So almost nobody looks to this middle layer.

这个论点并不错， 因为这些公司就是能做到的， 但美国公司和欧洲公司 都在做同样的事。 这些政府也在做同样的事。 所以基本上这就是一场权力斗争。 但这不是一个论点。 对吧？ 对。 所以几乎没人会看这个中间层。

Because it's still there and it's still soft. We can still do stuff. Yeah? So the public looks at the surface. It's beautiful. It's smooth. It's comfortable. The engineers look at the hardware, at the bottom, at the basic infrastructure. Because it's very hard. It's technical. And the artists until now have mostly worked

因为它仍然存在， 而且仍然很软。 我们仍然能做一些事。 对吧？ 所以公众只看表面。 它很美。 很顺滑。 很舒适。 工程师看硬件， 看底层、看基础基础设施。 因为它非常硬。 它很技术化。 而艺术家直到现在大多都在做

on the surface. Yeah? The visible.

表面层面的工作。 对吧？ 那些可见的部分。

So if you want to work where the actual power is, and I am a person who's, as an artist, I'm very interested in power. In systems. In how they work. Why they work. Who controls what. What functions how. And if you want to work where the power actually is, you have to go into this middle layer, into the orchestration layer.

所以如果你想在真正的权力所在的地方工作， 而我作为一个艺术家， 我对权力非常感兴趣。 在系统里。 在它们如何运作。 为什么它们会运作。 谁控制了什么。 哪些功能如何运作。 如果你想在权力真正存在的地方工作， 你就得进入这个中间层， 进入编排层。

This is the layer where we should work in. Let me say clearly what that means. Because it's the whole idea of these six days. We do not treat the vibe as something to decorate. We do not make a nicer surface. We go under the surface. Into the layer that arranges the vibe. And we work there. The plumbing, the scheduling, the routing.

这就是我们应该在这个层面工作的地方。 我把这个意思说清楚。 因为这就是这六天的整个理念。 我们不把氛围当作用来装饰的东西。 我们不是为了把表面做得更漂亮。 我们走到表面之下。 进入那层安排氛围的层面。 我们就在那里工作。 管线、排期、路由。

The rules that decide what you feel and when. It's the middle plumbing. It's not the big ch— it's not the big canals. You know, where the water comes in and goes out. It's the— it's the plumbing that is in the house. Yeah? How the water gets distributed in the— in the— in the gaffa buildings. That is kind of a middle, middle layer.

那些决定你什么时候、感受什么的规则。 这是中间层的管线。 不是那些大的管道——不是那些大的管道。 你知道的，就是水进来又出去的那种。 而是——是房子里的管线。 对吧？ 水是如何在——在—— 在那些胶布建筑里分布的。 那算是一个中间、中间层。

It's not hardcore, basic infrastructure, but it's also not surface. The surface is then where the water comes out. The old avantgarde looked— took an object and called it art. You know, the urinal, Marcel Duchamp. Yeah? He took this thing, from the toilet, and put it in the museum. That was revolutionary.

它不是硬核的基础基础设施， 但也不是表面层。 表面层就是水从那里流出来的地方。 旧的前卫观念——把一个物体拿来 称之为艺术。 你知道，比如马塞尔·迪尚的"马桶"。 对吧？ 他把这个东西从厕所里拿出来， 放进博物馆。 那是革命性的。

It was. A soup can, Warhol. You don't have to discuss this shit. You know that. They pointed at a thing and shifted the meaning. And that was at the time very radical. Yeah? But today the object is not where the power is. Today the power is in the infrastructure, in the standard, in the protocol, in the layer that arranges everything

确实是。 一罐汤，沃尔霍尔。 这些破事你不用讨论。 你都知道。 他们指向一个东西，就把意义转移了。 而在当时这非常激进。 对吧？ 但今天，物体不在权力所在的地方。 今天，权力在基础设施里， 在标准里，在流程里， 在那一层安排一切的层面里，

before you ever see it.

在你看到它之前。

Okay? I'll give you also a minute to breathe and to think. Yeah?

好吗？ 我也给你一分钟， 喘口气，想一想。 对吧？

Is this interesting for you? Yeah? Does it do something in your head? Like, yeah? Okay.

这对你来说有意思吗？ 对吧？ 它会在你脑子里起作用吗？ 比如说，对吧？ 好。

So, as I said. The new material is not the image. Or whatever the video or the sound or whatever. Yeah? The new material is the arrangement, yeah, how you contextualize and arrange images or sounds. What kind of concepts you make, what kind of rules you say. You could make rules. You can say, um, I make a 200 paintings,

所以，正如我说的。 新材料并不是图像。 也不是视频、声音之类的， 或者别的什么。 对吧？ 新材料是那种安排， 对吧，你如何把它放进语境、安排起来， 图像或声音。 你构思什么样的概念， 你说什么样的规则。 你可以制定规则。 你可以说，呃，我画200幅画，

they're all, um, all of little pics. And I make a system like a data. I take the plan of data center and I— I'm very bad with ideas, so don't— don't quote me on this stupid idea now. But I— I try to explain and then you can say every build, every painting of a pig represents a server. Yeah? And then you connect these servers with each other.

它们全都是，呃，都是小图片。 然后我做一个系统，像数据一样。 我拿到数据中心的平面图， 而我——我很不擅长想法， 所以别——别拿这个蠢点子来引用我。 但我——我会尽量解释， 然后你可以说每一次建造， 每一幅"猪"的画都代表一个服务器。 对吧？ 然后你把这些服务器彼此连接起来。

And you take another material and you connect it. And then you, uh, put it somewhere. And then you write a text about it. Then you explain that. So now you have 200 pictures of pigs and maybe you just like the pigs. But in the art world today, you need to think a little bit further than just painting 200 pigs.

你再取另一种材料， 把它连接起来。 然后你，呃，把它放到某个地方。 接着你写一段文字来描述它。 然后你再解释它。 所以现在你有200张猪的图片， 也许你只是喜欢这些猪。 但在当今的艺术世界里， 你需要想得更远一点， 不只是画200只猪。

Yeah? Even if you like to do that, that's not— it's not going to work out for you if you do that. Probably. Anyways, bad example. Hope you— you understand. Or hope I got over— I got the point over a little bit. But I'm going to come back to it.

对吧？ 即使你喜欢这么做， 那也不会——不会对你有效， 如果你那样做的话。 大概吧。 总之，这是个很糟的例子。 希望你——你能理解。 或者希望我有点——我把重点说过头了， 稍微有点。 但我会回到这个点上。

So the— the arrangement, like the orchestration, how you're going to— how you're going to tell your objects and your sounds and your things when to do something or how to connect with each other. Who talks to whom? In which language? You know? Which currency you use in your system? Whatever. Yeah? So the unchosen layer underneath this smooth surface.

所以那个——那个布置， 比如那种编排， 你要怎么——你要怎么告诉 你的物体、你的声音、你的东西 什么时候该做什么，或者怎么连接 彼此之间。 谁跟谁说话？ 用什么语言？ 你懂吧？ 你在系统里用的是哪种货币？ 随便。 对吧？ 所以在这个光滑表面之下的、未被选择的那一层。

Now we come to the word smooth.

现在我们来说"smooth"这个词。

So this is not neutral. Yeah? Remember from yesterday, the middle layer is tuned for profit. Now we always have to think about that. This is important. As an artist, you cannot just be an artist. You have to think about the conditions you live in. You have to think about, okay, I'm a student here. What kind of school is that?

所以这并不是中性的。 对吧？ 记得昨天说的，中间层是被调校的， 为了利润。 现在我们总得想到这一点。 这很重要。 作为艺术家，你不能只是当个艺术家。 你得去思考那些条件， 你生活在其中的条件。 你得想：好， 我在这里是学生。 那是什么样的学校？

What kind of teachers are there? What is this guy telling me here? Who is he? Why is he here? Is he here just because of the money? Is he here because he— he— he— he's interested in, I don't know, why— what is— you know, when I— when you sit here, you have to think about my motivation in context to what I tell you,

那里有什么样的老师？ 这家伙在跟我说什么？ 他是谁？ 他为什么在这里？ 他是不是只是为了钱才在这里？ 他是不是因为他——他——他—— 他对......我也不知道， 为什么——是什么——你知道， 当我——当你坐在这里时， 你得去想我的动机， 放在我对你说的内容的语境里，

in order to understand why I tell you this, how to read what I'm telling you, because otherwise you're kind of stupid.

这样你才能理解我为什么这么说， 知道该怎么读我说的内容， 不然你就有点傻。

Because you're naive. You don't think about things. You just sit there and you kind of lazy as well. You always have to think about the context. Not all the time. Not— that's annoying. And it's really exhausting. I do that and I can tell you this is horribly exhausting. But from time to time you need to contextualize.

因为你很天真。 你不会去想这些事。 你就坐在那里，也有点懒散。 你总得去想语境。 不是每次都这样。 不是——那很烦。 而且真的很累。 我也会这么做，我可以告诉你， 这真的非常累。 但时不时你需要给它放对语境。

You need to think, what does that mean? You know? And for the art career or for the art world or for whatever in life, it's not art only. It's whatever in life you want to do, you always have to think about, you know, what am I going to study? Is this— where does that bring me? What kind of— in which position does that put me?

你得想：这是什么意思？ 你懂吧？ 而对艺术职业，或者艺术界来说， 或者生活中的任何事情来说， 这不只是艺术。 不管你想做什么， 你都得去想，你知道， 我要学什么？ 这——它会把我带到哪里？ 它会让我处在什么样的——什么位置？

Or my friends, what are— this friend is weird. What is his motivation to do that? You know? How is he— and— and all these kind of things. So this is important on a— on a— on a— on a human level, on a professional level, on a student level. Um, on an artistic level, and so on.

或者我的朋友，他们是—— 这个朋友很奇怪。 他做那件事的动机是什么？ 你懂吧？ 他是怎么——怎么——以及这些类似的事。 所以这在——在—— 在——在人类层面上， 在职业层面上， 在学生层面上都很重要。 嗯，在艺术层面上， 等等。

So— so this middle layer is tuned for profit. The— the— the fundamental layer is also for profit. But it's basically built— it— it's— it's there. And these companies that control it, they're like, uh, tax officers, basically. They just— they— they just get taxes from you. You use it and you have to pay for it.

所以——所以这个中间层是为了利润而调校的。 那——那——那层基础层也是为了利润。 但它基本上是这样构建的—— 它——它——它就在那里。 而那些控制它的公司， 基本上就像，呃，税务官一样。 他们就是——他们——他们就是从你这里收税。 你用它，然后你得为它付钱。

And they should— they— they don't have to do a lot anymore. You just pay all the time.

而他们本来——他们——他们现在不需要做太多了。 你就一直在付钱。

But when you go into the middle layer as artist, you're kind of entering a machine that was built for money making. And now we have to use it for something else. And that is the move. But that's also the risk. So now, um, instead of, um, only talking, we're going to look at one attempt to do that. And, um, we're going to look at the show

但当你作为艺术家进入中间层时， 你就像是在进入一台机器， 它是为了赚钱而建造的。 而现在我们得把它用在别的东西上。 这就是转型。 但这也有风险。 所以现在，嗯，与其只是，嗯，说， 我们要看一个尝试， 来做到这一点。 然后，嗯，我们要看看这个展览，

that we did in Dongguan at the Box Art Museum. And you just told me today, do they know that we're going to do this trip? Yeah. Saturday. Okay. Um, exactly. So I— I learned after I wrote the lecture, I learned that we're going to— that we're going to go and see the show. I'm still going to talk. I think it's an interesting experiment.

就是我们在东莞做的那个， 在Box Art Museum。 你今天刚跟我说， 他们知道我们要去这趟旅行吗？ 对。 星期六。 好。 嗯，没错。 所以我——我在写那篇讲座之后学到的是， 我学到我们要—— 我们要去看那个展览。 我还是会继续讲。 我觉得这是个有意思的实验。

I'm still going to talk about, uh, I'm still going to talk about the exhibition now. I'm going to show you the website. Because the website is also kind of an art piece. Uh, because that's also what stays. The exhibition will be over in two months. But the art— the website and the images, they stay.

我还是会讲，呃， 我现在还是会讲这个展览。 我会给你们看网站。 因为网站也算是一件艺术作品。 呃，因为那也是会留下来的东西。 展览两个月后就结束了。 但艺术——网站和图片， 它们会留下来。 他们简单给大家补充一下就是，呃，我们接下来周六会有个活动，就会早上上午去一趟盒子美术馆看卢修斯教授的一个，呃，个展。 呃，和他的小组的一个个展。 对。 叫"明日小组"。 周六。 周六。周六上午会有大巴。

They'll just briefly add something for everyone, um, we'll have an event next Saturday, and in the morning we'll go to the Hebei Art Museum to see a, uh, solo exhibition by Professor Lucius. Uh, a solo exhibition with his group. Yes. It's called "Tomorrow's Group." Saturday. Saturday. There will be a bus on Saturday morning.

哦，接送大家过去。对。 稍微具体的，呃，行程安排我会在群里面进一步通知大家。

Oh, to pick everyone up and take them there. Yes. A bit more specific, uh, itinerary planning I'll let everyone know further in the group. Okay. Thank you. And— and we're going to go then to Shenzhen.

好的，谢谢。 然后——然后我们接下来要去 深圳。 哦，对。然后下午会去深圳，会去周立老师的工作室。 对。

Oh, right. Then in the afternoon we'll go to Shenzhen, to Professor Zhouli's studio. Yes. That's cool. Yes. Yes. A very great painter.

那很酷。 是的。 是的。 他是一位非常出色的画家。 呃，本科的一年级。 对。

Uh, a firstyear student. Yes. In the studio. A studio visit. Yes. Yeah. It's cool. So it's going to be the whole day trip. Field trip.

在工作室里。 去看工作室。 是的。 对。 挺酷的。 所以这会是一整天的行程。 野外行程。 所以本科一年级吗？ 呃，油画系的。 还有刚好因为我们最近也在带一个油画系的先导课，然后我们也会把他们拉去看这个展览。然后顺便一起参观一下老师的工作室。

So you're a firstyear student? Uh, in the oil painting department. Also, it just so happens that we've been teaching a prediscussion class for the oil painting department recently, and we'll also bring them to see this exhibition. And we'll also take a look at the teacher's studio as we go. 嗯。 You know what?

嗯，你知道吗？

Let's take a break.

我们休息一下吧。 啊？

Huh? It's exhausting otherwise. I— yeah.

不然就很累。 我——对。 你休息。

You rest. Uh, what— what should we say? 15 minutes? 10 minutes? What do you want? Let— let's say 10 minutes and we start in 15, huh?

呃，我们——我们该怎么说？ 15分钟？10分钟？ 你想要多久？ 那——那我们就说10分钟吧， 然后我们15分钟开始，好吗？

-- Good morning. Okay. Come on. Yeah.

早上好。 好的。 来吧。 嗯。 你们抓有趣。 跟我周树人有什么关系？

You guys are interesting. What does that have to do with me, Zhou Shuren?

你这个梗。

That joke of yours. She's talking a kind of layer of X.

她在说的是一种"X的层次"。 对啊。

Yeah. I understand. Okay.

我明白。 好的。

It has nothing to do with you, but maybe you're too stupid to understand. I'm also being ironic now.

这跟你没关系， 但也许你太蠢了， 不够明白。 我现在也在讽刺一下。

I'm not very good with that stuff, you know, with the irony on top of the irony. I, I, I—you must be experts.

我不太擅长那些东西， 你知道的，就是讽刺叠讽刺。 我、我、我——你们肯定是专家。

About think about. Sent you something funny or a meme or something like that, or a cool video. And you don't answer with a word.

想一想。 我给你发了什么搞笑的东西，或者一个梗图， 之类的， 或者一个很酷的视频。 而你不用用一个词回答。

That meme comes. Conversation that you're having. Through. That's why emojis are so important. They're super in—in China they're.

那个梗图就会出来。 你们正在进行的对话。 通过。 所以表情符号才这么重要。 它们特别——在中国它们是。

Means. I don't understand. What is the role? What does that mean? Add is okay, I guess, but this one— I, I use it. I use it all the time. No. Why not? It's not a smile. It's a kind of crying. It's. Yeah. Oh, okay.

意思。 我不明白。 它的作用是什么？ 那是什么意思？ 加上去也行吧，我想， 但这个—— 我、我用它。 我一直都在用。 不。 为什么不？ 那不是笑容。 那是一种哭泣。 是。 嗯。 哦，好吧。

Oh, okay. You know that. Oh, that's crying. No, it's.

哦，好吧。 你知道的。 哦，那是哭。 不，那是。

You know, okay, why not? It's ironic. It's already a layer. It's common.

你知道，好吧，为什么不？ 这很讽刺。 它已经是一个层次了。 这很常见。

And what does the rose mean? For, like, old people like me. Not for you, but for. You said for the professor.

那"玫瑰"是什么意思？ 比如说，像我这样的老人。 不是给你的，是给...... 你说是给教授的。 笑脸是不正常的。 对对对。 呃，玫瑰花是正常的，

A smiling face isn't normal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, a rose is normal,

但是有一个微笑。

but there's a smile.

这个是。

This is... Yeah, yeah. That's not good. It's not. No, it's not. Don't use it. Okay. Can you use that? That's like respect. Yeah. It's okay. Yeah. Good.

对，对。 那不好。 不是。 不，不是。 别用它。 好。 你能用那个吗？ 那就像是在表示尊重。 嗯。 没关系。 嗯。 好。

The rose. Rose is a also thank you. This is thank you. Okay.

玫瑰。 玫瑰也是一种"谢谢"。 这是"谢谢"。 好。

Yeah, these are the stickers. I have to be very careful always with the stickers,

对，这些是贴纸。 我在贴纸上一定要非常小心，

because, for example, I— Like, I have these, and then sometimes I have to be careful that I don't send them to like this one.

因为比如说，我——我有这些， 然后有时候我得小心， 别把它们寄到像这个这样的地方。

To other professors. You know? The other—the others who are here will think, "What the fuck is going on?" I'll send these.

给其他教授。 你懂吧？ 其他——在这里的人会想， "这他妈怎么回事？" 我会把这些寄过去。

So okay, that's interesting. Now, what does it mean? I—because I got this emo—this sticker. What does it mean to send?

所以，好吧，这很有意思。 那现在，这是什么意思？ 我——因为我拿到这个表情——这个贴纸。 寄送是什么意思？

What does it mean, black sticker?

"黑色贴纸"是什么意思？ 这是黑色。

This is black. You can talk. You can be open. It's fine.

你可以说话。 你可以坦诚。 没问题。

Yeah, I know. What do you mean this is black? This? Or this? These are. What do you mean?

嗯，我知道。 你是什么意思，这是黑色？ 这个？ 还是这个？ 这些是。 你什么意思？ 这个。 这个是雪茄。 哦。 那个不把。

This. This is a cigar. Oh. That one, don't... Cuba scar. This one.

古巴伤疤。 这个。 激情开场。

A passionate opening. Okay. That's a cigar. But can I use that now? No.

好。 那是个雪茄。 但我现在可以用那个吗？ 不行。

Okay, okay, okay. Okay, okay. Okay, good, good.

好，好，好。 好，好。 好，好，好。

So I still—okay. What do black people mean when they're? Because I ha—I think I—where is—oh yeah, oh, this one.

所以我还是——好。 黑人在......的时候是什么意思？ 因为我还——我觉得我——在哪儿—— 哦对，哦，这个。

This one.

这个。

I mean, it's from.

我是说，它来自......

R&B. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

R&B。 对，对。 好。

Okay. You—I'm going to do that in oneonones. I'm going to interview you. I'm going to ask you. What the fuck do you mean? What does it mean? And then you're going to give me these ironic and postironic, uh, answers, I guess. So let's, um, let's do a little bit of—is it okay if I do a little bit of talking now?

好。 你——我会在一对一里这么做。 我要采访你。 我要问你。 你他妈什么意思？ 这是什么意思？ 然后你要给我这些讽刺的 还有讽刺之后的，呃，回答，我想。 所以我们，嗯，我们来稍微—— 我现在稍微说一点可以吗？

Do you want to listen a little bit? And then we—we can do another discussion.

你想听一会儿吗？ 然后我们——我们可以再讨论一下。

Yeah.

嗯。 他先讲一会儿。

He'll talk for a bit first. Okay, okay. And, um, important for me is really important that we use the WeChat. If you have stuff. I don't have to understand everything. Your friend.

好，好。 而且，嗯，对我来说很重要，真的很重要。 我们要用 WeChat。 如果你有东西的话。 我不需要什么都懂。 你的朋友。

But you can also—this is stupid. You all know that.

但你也可以——这太蠢了。 你们都知道这个。

So but sometimes it's also just good to vibe and just feel and have fun. Yeah. So I don't know.

所以，但有时候也只是为了氛围。 就是感受一下、玩一玩、开心一下。 嗯。 所以我也不知道。

The world is. Or not. So I'm going to do that now.

世界是......或者不是。 所以我现在就要这么做。

So we talk about, uh, we talk. It's here.

所以我们聊，呃，我们聊。 在这儿。

So, um, I'm going to talk low so you can hear the—the translation. I think that really works well, right?

所以，嗯，我会小声说话。 这样你就能听到——听到翻译。 我觉得这样真的很好用，对吧？

And you— Then you just stop. Say stop, teacher. Okay.

然后你——然后你就停下。 说"停"，老师。 好。

So we're going to talk about— Yeah? Which is the hardware layer. Layer. And the application. Yeah? And— Here it's explained. You can read a little bit. Yeah?

所以我们要聊—— 嗯？ 也就是硬件层。 层。 还有应用。 嗯？ 然后—— 这里解释了。 你可以读一点。 嗯？

Yesterday we said— Before you can explain it. Yeah? And today we go under it. How this works. Technically. Infrastructurally. Yeah? So we—and we look— So we start with something simple. Everything you touch on your phone has three layers.

昨天我们说过—— 在你能解释之前。 嗯？ 今天我们深入讲。 这是怎么运作的。 从技术上讲。 从基础设施角度。 嗯？ 所以我们——然后我们看—— 所以我们从一个简单的东西开始。 你在手机上触碰的每一样东西 都有三层。

Three.

三层。

Again, I do repeat myself because I really want you to process it. As I said yesterday,

再说一次，我确实会重复自己。 因为我真的希望你能消化、理解这些。 就像我昨天说的，

things three— Know it, you know? Um, so this you all know. You use it all the time. On the laptop. On the phone. On the TV.

这些东西有三层—— 你要知道，明白吗？ 嗯，所以这个你们都知道。 你们一直在用它。 在笔记本电脑上。 在手机上。 在电视上。

Or also storefronts are also applications, basically. You know? In a mall. It's like it looks very shiny. It looks perfect.

或者说，商店平台本质上也是应用程序。 你懂吧？ 在商场里。 它看起来特别亮。 看起来很完美。

It's designed and—and then you—

它被设计出来了，然后你——

Nice. In your—in your house. You're also immersed. You may be in your bed or in the couch. You have a cat next to you. So friend or girlfriend. You're really involved. It's very immersive. It feels very—

不错。 在你——在你家里。 你也会沉浸其中。 你可能在床上，也可能在沙发上。 你旁边有一只猫。 所以可能是朋友或女朋友。 你真的很投入。 这非常让人沉浸。 感觉很——

And then most people think that there is only the other layer. Most people don't think about that. Some brains did. So this is the second layer. This is really where—where—where buildings are built. Where—where power is being coming in. Like data centers, you know?

然后大多数人会觉得 只有另一层。 大多数人不会去想这个。 有些大脑就是这么想的。 所以这就是第二层。 这其实就是——就是——建筑被建在的地方。 也就是——权力正在涌入的地方。 比如数据中心，你懂吧？

Everything— Every conversation, every WhatsApp message, every stupid sticker that we send around. Data. It's electricity.

所有东西—— 每一次对话、每一条 WhatsApp 消息， 我们到处发的每一个蠢贴纸。 数据。 这是电。

It needs chips. And most fastest chips, it needs software that is— Okay. Slow down the—the voice. Okay. Maybe it's better.

它需要芯片。 而且最快的芯片， 需要的是软件—— 好。 把——把声音放慢点。 好。 也许这样更好。

Um, uh, no. Lower. Wait, wait. Lower the sounds. I think.

嗯，呃，不。 再小一点。 等等，等等。 把声音调小。 我觉得。

Only. Okay. Oh, okay, now it works again. Ah. Okay, this is, uh, so sound is— sound is extremely strong in terms of vibe.

只是。 好的。 哦，好，现在又能用了。 啊。 好，这个，呃，所以声音是—— 从氛围感来说，声音非常强烈。

Here, one— here, um, and this is interesting because it's a— it's a reference of a reference, right?

这里，一个——这里，嗯，而且这很有意思， 因为这是一个——它是对一个引用的引用，对吧？

So it's a— it's a old people listen to— How the feeling of old people listening, because they have a different feeling.

所以这是一个——是一些老一辈的人听—— 老一辈听的那种感觉， 因为他们有不同的感受。

Because—

因为——

So this is— this is, uh, this is good because it's also goes along with what I wanted to say and— Ironic.

所以这个——这个，呃，这个很好， 因为它也和我想说的内容相呼应， 而且—— 讽刺。

A little bit cultural revolution. I— so, but I— there's so much— Yeah? From that? Because it's your parents, are basically, uh, children of the culture. Um, but interesting with memes, yeah? Kind of the— like, in the internet era, the memes are kind of the original vibe generator. They're super strong.

有一点文化革命。 我——所以，但我——有太多—— 对吗？从那里？ 因为基本上你的父母是，呃，这个文化的孩子。 嗯，但关于梗图很有意思，对吧？ 有点像——比如在互联网时代， 梗图算是最早的"氛围生成器"。 它们非常强。

Because they—

因为它们——

And you understand them. You can have 10 layers, in a— in a meme, and you will immediately get it.

而且你能理解它们。 你可以有10层， 在一个——在一个梗图里， 你会立刻抓住它。

That is— now, there's actually a problem there, because— at least in Europe, or in the US, we have a problem

这——现在，其实这里有个问题， 因为——至少在欧洲， 或者在美国，我们有个问题，

with— It's not only one level of irony that people use, yeah? This is ironic. But they post irony level 1. So it's ironic about the irony. So it's, yeah, it's exactly that,

就是—— 这不只是讽刺的一层， 人们会用到的那种，对吧？ 这很讽刺。 但他们会发讽刺的1层。 所以这就是对讽刺的讽刺。 所以，对，就是完全那样，

with the— people listening to that or not, and then you kind of making fun about not making.

不管人们听不听那个， 然后你就开始嘲笑自己没在做。

Fun about the old people not making fun about what— I mean, you know, because I think you're also doing that,

嘲笑老一辈不在嘲笑那些—— 我是说，你懂的， 因为我觉得你也在这么做，

this kind of— Kind of— And politically, this is kind of dangerous. Because in Europe and in the US,

这种——这种—— 而从政治角度看，这有点危险。 因为在欧洲和美国，

a lot of people were— Dangerous political positions, would use irony and irony of irony, and put them on top of each other. So you can say— And it's not— Hey, you said something wrong.

很多人—— 是危险的政治立场， 会用讽刺、讽刺的讽刺， 把它们叠在一起。 所以你可以说—— 而且这不是—— 喂，你说错了。

I'm just being— And then to say, yeah, but you were being about that. And then you say, no, no, no, I was being ironic about being ironic. And— Catching. So everybody— You can say anything you want, and you never have to— yeah?

我只是—— 然后再说，对， 但你刚才说的就是那个。 然后你又说，不不不， 我是在讽刺讽刺。 而且—— 抓住了。 所以大家—— 你想说什么都可以， 而且你从来不必——对吧？

We want to look at another one? Uh, she, she, she— Maybe I can—

我们想再看一个吗？ 呃，她，她，她—— 也许我可以——

Because— It's clearly about the different layers, what you— Oh, okay, okay, then we stop it quickly and you explain it, basically. Yeah.

因为—— 这显然是在说不同的层次， 你—— 哦，好，好， 那我们就快速停一下， 然后你基本上解释一下。 对。