This might be UBERMORGEN. In East London.

这个可能是 UBERMORGEN。

It's not a prophecy, it's just over by the roofs on our side. Before you think like that, I also want to remind you that it's the latest. And we're also sure we can do it. Right now we have some limitations, because... Don't expand it. What I mean is, you're just like a video and... Yes. Then like this, I think it... Right, this expression. I mean, like this one.

在东伦敦。 不是预言，就是我们这些屋顶的那边。 这样的想法之前，也要提醒你最新为。 也确定能把。 我们现在有一些限制，因为。 不要扩展。 我的意思是，你只是像视频跟。 是。 那这样，我觉得它。 对，这个表情。 就是说像这个。

Then like me... Mmhmm. Yeah, it's this door everyone can play with. Otherwise... Right. And then it turns into someone else writing the lyrics, and I think... The freedom is way too high, I think what we want is that kind of coincidence. I have a small question: if in the end the sizes of those stickers aren't all different?

那像我。 嗯。 对啊，就是大家可以玩的这个门。 不然。 对。 然后它变成了自己别人写文案，那我觉得。 自由度太高了，我觉得想要就是那种很巧合。 我有一个小问题，假如说最终呈现那些表情包的大小不是都不一样吗？

Mmhmm. So you want to standardize it to one size? Mmhmm. With varied sizes. This one that ends up being put together. Mmhmm. Okay. I'll send it. Send it like this. Mmhmm. Where did you send it?

嗯。 那你是想要把它统一到一个大小？ 嗯。 大小错落的。 最后拼的这个。 嗯。 行。 我发。 这样发。 嗯。

Send it like this. Send lots of pictures, in that format. Okay, okay, okay.

你把它发到哪里了？ 这样发。 发很多图片，它的形式。

It's at... Completely different. Mmhmm. And then... Did you post it to the group?

好好好。 是在。 完全不一样的。 嗯。 然后。

Whether it's translated or not. Mmhmm. Yes, yes, yes. Right. Okay, okay.

你把它发到群里了吗？ 翻译还是不是。 嗯。 要要要。 对。

This text actually contains information about the pictures. That's wrong. It references the picture you chose, the image. Mmhmm. And then it can be completed. Add. Add learning. So it's arrived—oh, compared to... Okay, no. Because what's good for me is that part of it, it says what I ultimately chose. I sent you a.

好好好。 我这个文字其实是包含图片的信息的。 错了。 联想到你选择的那个图片，图像的。 嗯。 然后就能完成。 加。 加学。 原来到了。哦，那比。 好，没有。因为我那个好的就是它那个，它说我最后选的。

Information about the size. It's exactly the same. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Hey, so will you... you guys will, like, do it, like, like, are you going to do it? Just to see how it is, at least. Right. Hahaha. Or I think if it really doesn't work, if we can't do it, we'll make a plan first, I think that's OK too. Right. Just refine it first.

我给你发了一个。 尺寸的信息。 完全一样。 哦哦哦哦。 哎，那你们会，你们会就是就是做也就是就是你们要你们要做吗？ 看它好歹。 对。 哈哈哈。 或者我觉得实在不行，做不了先成一个方案，我觉得也 OK。 对。 就是先完善好。

Yes, yes. Just have something first, run it in code first, don't worry about what it looks like. Once the code runs up, it'll be full of bugs. Right, just run it first. Run things. Run things. Just assuming. If right now, at this moment, you can't make it, that doesn't mean you can't make it in the future, so this isn't good,

是的，是。就是先有东西，先先用代码跑起来，别管它长什么样。 代码跑起来，里面全是 bug。 对，就是先跑起来。 跑东西。 跑东西。 就是假设。 就现在如果现在此刻做不出来，那不代表以后做不出来，所以这样不好，

so come up with a plan. Release it tomorrow.

一个方案出来。 明天发出。

Actually, I think everyone can put this in, and use their own lives to attack. Okay, hahaha. Attack is what's needed. This won't work. Mm, send it to which group? I guess. Just send it to ours, then we'll organize it together, and then send it in a unified way. Send it to this work group. So you, you guys...

其实我觉得大家都可以把这个放进去，使用自己的生命来攻击。 好，哈哈哈。 攻击才行。 这不行。 嗯，发到哪个群？ 我猜。 就发到我们那个，然后我们再再整理到一块，然后再统一的发。 发到这个工作群。 所以你们你们。

Right. If, if I already... Right, and then... We've already unified it. Organize it. We set up a group, I guess that's basically unified. Your weaker group is already unified in this plan, right? Right. For now, that's it. Write it as the rules group. Just us. Right, our group. I, I agree. Agreed by default.

对。 如果如果我都已经。 对，然后。 我们已经统一了。 整理。 建了个群，从算统一了吧。 你们弱组就是统一这个方案了，对吧？ 对吧。 暂时就这么。 写规则组嘛。 就我们。对，我们组。 我我是同意的。 默认同意。

If she agrees, I'll definitely agree too. Right, you five have already talked it through. Got it. Right, I actually talked it through. Then the others... In the group too, a bit... Right. Who is it?

她同意，我也肯定同意。 对，你们五个已经交流过了。 明白。 对，我其实交流过了。 那其他人。 群里也稍微。 对。 是谁？

This one isn't good, it's just, you know... Is this the ID name? It doesn't seem to be. That one. What's it called again, this chain is the real name, and then you don't know if the ID matches who it is. They didn't match it. I used my ID, which is me. Mm, Which group are you in? I'm in the third group.

就这个不好，就是就什么。 这个是 ID 名吗？好像不是。 那个。 它那个叫什么，这个接龙是本名，然后你那就就不知道对不上那个 ID 谁是谁。 他们没有对。 我按我的 ID 是我。 嗯，你在哪个组？ 我在第三组。

Right, you're not in that group. Huh? We... It has a separate small group, each group has a small group. We have a meal group. No, I mean your ID and what this chain produces, the name of the chain doesn't match your ID, so I don't know which group it is.

对，你没在那个群里。 啊？我们。 就它单独有另外一个小群，每个组有一个小群。 我们有个吃饭。 不是，我的意思是你这个 ID 和这个接龙产生的，就是这接龙的名字和你的 ID 对不上，所以我就不知道哪个组。

It's the network they use. You connect it, the two of us connected it to our ID. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, okay. It connected it to its own ID too, and I connected it to my ID as well. Right, the network name doesn't prove anything. It's just called my network name. It'll be super cheap. Me too. OK.

它是他们用的网。 你把接的，我们俩接的就是我们的 ID 啊。 哦，是吗？ 对啊。 哦哦。 它接的也是它的 ID，我接的也是我的 ID。 对，网名没有证明。 就是叫我网名。 会便宜绝妙。 我也是。 OK。

Thanks. Got it. Hahaha. Who is your Shield Bro? Who is the "Goose Shield" big goose? That "Goose Shield" big goose. Huh? Who? Translate. Ah, "Goose Shield" big goose. Hahaha.

谢谢。 知道了。 哈哈哈。 你谁是盾哥呀？鹅盾大鹅谁？ 鹅盾大鹅那个。 啊？谁？ 翻译。 啊，鹅盾大鹅。哈哈哈。

Then which one are you? What? I'm—I'm Shenzhi. Shenzhi? I'm the Prophet. Shenzhi. Hahaha.

那你是哪个？ 什么？我是我是神职。 神职？ 我是预言家。 神职。 哈哈哈。

Actually, I think... Use it.

其实我觉得。 用。

I'm going to... That's good.

每个。

I'm showing you this video, it's kind of new. Beauty disappears in life, but it won't disappear in clothing. And why did that Nai Long suddenly turn into a frog? Yes. Ah, Nai Long. Milk frog. Alright. Okay.

那很好。 就是我给你们看这个视频，就是它有点新。美在生活中消亡，在衣服中不会。 而且那奶龙怎么又变青蛙了？ 是。 啊，奶龙。 奶蛙。 好吧。

I'm out again. Let me show you this. Hey. I thought Nai Long was still a normal Nai Long. You can click play. You have to play it, okay? It's back to very loud. No, no, because these are very simple.

好的。 我又out了。 给你看这个。 哎。 我以为奶龙还是正常的奶龙。 你可以点击播放。 一定要播放哦，它有恢复很大声。 不会，不会，因为这些很简单。

Don't forget.

别忘了。

Oh, okay. One more time, one more time. It's normal that it didn't start.

哦，好的。 再来一遍，再来一遍。 没开头很正常。

My nature is really bad. Young people can all do that, right? Hmph. And also the aunt from the milkbreeding family.

我的本性很坏。 年轻人都会吧。 哼。 还有奶生科的舅妈。

Look at me, look at me,

你看我，你看我，

I can't take it.

我受不了。

This is really beautiful, this is your decision. This is this.

这是好好看，这是你的拍板。 这是这个。

I lost completely.

我输得很彻底。

Hey, I'm really curious, like, for example, this Nai Wa, this.

哎，我很好奇，就像比如说这个奶娃，这个。

And then it turns into... Is it? Isn't it? No, no, let me tell you. It was—oh—at first it was an animated show played for kids around 10 years old. Nai Long? Yes. It turned into Nai Wa. Who is this? It really looks too confused. The plot is pretty good too, the story is fairly accurate.

然后它变成。 是不是？不是吗？不是不是，我给你讲。它是，哦，最开始它是一个给10岁左右儿童播放的一个动画片。 奶龙吗？ 对。 它变成奶娃了。 这是谁？ 它实在看起来太迷糊了。剧情也不错，剧情比较准确。

Everyone use this as an example, use it as a sample,

大家把这个拿它来做例子，就拿它来做样本，

and then everyone will... For the workshop.

然后大家就。

You only started class recently, maybe. The netizen's creativity bounced like Superman. It was last night, and then he left. I just feel that. Have you found out?

用于工作坊。 你最近才上课，可能。 网友蹦跶了超人般的创造力。 是昨天晚上，然后就走了。 我就是觉得。

How do you put on a pair of glasses? Found out where we transferred them last week.

你发现了吗？ 怎么复合一副眼镜？

It's that yellowish dog, some kind of Beagle. I think we—

我们上周在哪里转过去的就发现了。 就是那个黄黄的那个狗啊，什么比格狗。

We're screwed. Take it to the change you.

我觉得我们—— 完蛋了。

Yeah. Maybe he will—

把它带到你要换的地方。 对。

It's fine, it's not important. Transform into a picture.

也许他会—— 没事，不重要。

This is also trendy. Okay, before they do that, just we have to talk again.

变成一张图片。 这也流行一个。

Again. Okay, okay.

好，在他们做那个之前， 我们得再聊一次。 再。

This—this is okay.

好，好。 这个，这个还好。

This is one that runs on the WeChat system. Yeah, there's a card afterward. I still haven't finished it, even though it's already a cultural product, but Nai Long is clearly cheaper. This emoji is basically a photo that some unknown netizen posted in the comments, but after it was liked, it was broadcast like this. That's how it spread. What app are you all using now?

这是一个服务于微信系统。 对，后面有卡。 我还没完成一样，虽然它已经文化产物，但是明显奶龙更低价。 这种表情包其实就是网友可能不知名的网友在评论区发了一张图，但是被欣赏了之后就这样广播。 就这样流传。 现在都用什么app了？

If you post this, I'll post that one, I'm just theoretical. It's very Douyin.

你发这个我就发它的那个，我是理论。 很抖音。

Which comment area do you think Nai La posted in? I think Xiaohongshu and Bilibili, or Douyin, both have it. I think it's on the most widely distributed social media platforms. No.

你觉得这个奶拉发在评论区是在哪个评论区？ 我觉得小红书和B站，或者抖音都有。就是我觉得比较广泛传播的社媒平台都是。

Actually, sometimes when you scroll through the comments, you can find it. He said, "I used to—" I mean, an unknown netizen suddenly said I once made a— an emoji that's been widely circulating, supersuper, and then everyone scrolled and realized it was you. You know, it's like that.

不。 其实其实有时候你刷那个评论区，可以刷到。他是说我曾经，就是就是，我们不知名网友突然说我曾经制作过一个，就是流传很广的表情包，超超级，然后大家都刷到原来是你。你就是就是，他就是这种。

It just spread in a very puristic way.

他就是一种非常明粹式的方式流传出来的。

I'll click it. We have something to do. We have work to do.

我点。 我们有事。

Think it through. Have you—have you read that?

我们有工作要做。 想好。

Page. Good, cool. Then you can—

你——你读过那个吗？ 页。

work。 Work. Yeah.

好，酷。 然后你可以——

It's really annoying. I can pull up a sentence for you. You stuff it to the side, I'm scanning. How did you stuff it? It's the one you're holding. Who wants to do that? I've already worn it around the waist. How did I even do it? It was you. Does it make sense? You can do yours. There's none on this side. If there is, it's like this.

对。 特别烦。 我可以给你拉出来一句。 你把它塞到一旁，我在扫。 你怎么塞的？ 就是你手上拿的。 谁要这样干？ 我已经穿出圈了。 我到底是怎么做的？是你。 有意义吗？ 你可以做你的。 这边没有。 有的话就是这样。

Convenient.

方便。

What's wrong?

怎么了？

Then I'll share it roughly.

那我大概就分享。

It's just a partner.

就是一个伴侣。

Go be that one.

去当那个。

Nai La loves me.

奶拉对我爱。

Naigua. If he gives me a little. Our country really trends on this Nai Long mask. It's called Nai La's. What's the name of the bag? Because each one has its own ATM.

奶瓜。 如果他给我一点。 我们国家很流行这个奶龙面具。 叫奶拉的。 叫什么包？因为它都有自己的ATM。

Okay, triangle. Can you do it a bit more powerfully? I think it smells a bit fragrant. It's kind of like the image. But the group I don't like is the one with grass. This spot. As long as you're under the dungeon, you'll sink.

好，三角。 能不能给力一点？ 我觉得有点香味。 有点像画面。 但我不喜欢的人群是带草的。 这个位置。 只要是你在密室下面，就会沉。

I like that smell. Because that's what I thought I'd come out of. How? It feels like it's sparkling. Like that. App. Another app.

喜欢那个香味。因为那个就是想到要走出一个。 怎么。 感觉像闪。 像那个。 APP。 又APP。

And then it's... Because what's trendy right now is all... So trendy—this kind of low... I'll write down my ID. For example.

然后是。 因为现在流行都。 好流行这种低。 我把我ID记下来。 比如说。

I hate it so much. Yeah, exactly like that. What does it call it?

讨厌死了。 对啊，就是那样。 它叫啥？

Green decoration. What is a paper tissue bag?

绿色装饰。 面纸包是什么？

Right now I don't feel like it. You can use the toilet. I want to practice. I want to look at the sand. I see you want to head out. I'll go. So thirsty. You say one sentence with him. Just this one. That we'll definitely achieve longterm and star. Right now, right now. We'll use this for the rest of the time. That's what I said.

我现在感觉不会。 可以厕所。 我要练习。 我要看沙子。 我看你们想出发。 我去。 好渴。 你和他一句话。 就这句。 就是我们一定能实现长期和明星。 我们现在我们现在。 就以后都用用这个。 这是我说的话。

That room. I can't even figure it out. They're buying us a house on this computer. Because we've been saying this is very important. That's it. And we need time to rest. Fix that balcony a bit.

那个房间。 我都找不明白。 这电脑里面给我们买房。 因为我我们说一直说这个很重要。 他就这个。 还要有空休息。 弄一下那个阳台。

You can also do poses here. When you have time, you can do it like this.

还可以在这里摆动作。有空就可以到这样。

A person's...

人的。

Then you can bring in our film. Okay. This is also for between people. Me. I've tried to bring it in, but I honestly don't know.

就可以导入我们那个膜。 可以。 这个也是对于人与人之间。 我。 我尝试导入过，但是我实在不知道。

Besides this, you...

除了这个，你。

I saw the key point. You need to listen for a moment, do that thing you did earlier. Want me to open it?

我看到了关键。 就是你要做一下倾听，做一下你之前那个。 要我来开。

Probably. Maybe we should do it in detail. He should be able to do it. I didn't expect it to still be 2D before. It's been a few years, right? I think I need to find that one.

应该。可能想细做了。他应该就可以。 没想到以前还是个二次元。 一几年的事了吧。 我觉得我要找那个。

Oh, this one doesn't have it. I like this.

哦，这个没有。 这个喜欢。

It's good.

有好。

Actually, I used to do it too.

其实我以前也。

I learned it myself. After that, I couldn't learn it. Me. All opportunities. How could it be like this? And then I never went again. It's like pretending you didn't do this blurred fix. Whose traffic card? Mine. Just go straight ahead. Because I have that CP. Explain other people's value.

我自己学会了。之后我学不去。 我。 一切的机缘。 怎么会这样。 然后我就再也没有去。 就是装没做这个模糊修。 谁的交通牌？ 我的。 就直接。 因为我有那个CP。 解释别人的价值。

I can't fit it in. Hahaha. No. You have to buy this mode for this software.

我装不进啊。 哈哈哈。 不行。 就是这个软件要买这个玩法。

Looks like there's something about buying a blind box. It's useful—like buying a blind box. I searched for 8 months.

好像有事买盲盒。 有用这个好像买盲盒。 查了8个月。

There's a line in the toilet. Oh. You definitely said it. Right. I don't understand. I really— Find this word for him. Me, this 3. Find it. Sorry. One box is 99 yuan. 284. I took the cuttiest one. This works too. I opened it. Because. How dare you sell it so expensively? A fake death of death.

厕所有一句。 哦。 确定说了呀。 对。 看不懂。我真是。 你给他找这个词吧。 我这3。 找。 对不起。 一盒99块钱。 284。 我拍的是最可爱的。 这也可以。 我开的。 为。 怎么敢卖那么贵的。 假死的死亡。

I just— Look. It seems he can only use that person.

我就。 你看。 他好像只能用那个人。

And it can only make— It's still okay that there's that person. Me. Take a look at him. It's very strange.

又只能让。 也还好有那个人。 我。 看一下他。 很奇怪。

You.

你。

Yes.

有。

Follow me a bit. I— Don't really scroll much. Is this what you did that day when you were looking for it? Okay. This.

给我关注一下你。 我都。 不怎么刷。 这个就是你们找你们那天搞的吗？ 好。 这个。

Oh my God. Who's with who? This is you. But, but we still have to do it. You have this. Right now I still feel— Because, because it's an indoor scene. Even if we say we're hygienized, it's still— Then when you run into things, you can switch it up a lot—say, you need 180.

oh my god。 这是谁跟谁？ 这是你。 但是但是还是要做。 你有这个。 我现在觉得还是。 因为因为室内景。就算我们说卫生也是。然后遇到有些就是习惯大幅度转成比如说需要180。

And even sometimes, I really— You don't necessarily say other things while transitioning. Drop it. The right hand's tail is the reason. You. You know I'm just telling you I see what you're talking so just that you know. Okay.

然后我们即使有时候我真的那种。 也不一定在转场的时候把其他东西说。 丢到。 正手尾正是理智。 你。

Translating. Behind my picture. Just for your info.

你知道吗，我只是跟你说 我能看出你在说什么 所以只是让你知道一下。 好。 Translating. 我图片背后。

He said we should continue. Yes. I can see you.

只是给你参考一下。 他说我们继续。

Mmhmm.

是的。 我能看到你。 嗯。

Postproduction. Yeah.

后期。

II thought there was no one. No one to hold on. I just can't understand at all. Okay. It's okay—found out it's not one. One—not that one. Not that serious. Oh man, I think the hardest part right now is— The most dominant. You need to.

对。 我我以为无人。 无人坚持。 根本看不懂。 好。 没关系发现不是一个。 一个不一一个那个的。 没那么正经。 哎呀我觉得我们现在做那个最最最难的就是。 最霸气。 需要。

That's it. For example, when you're doing that thing. When he's spinning. Then lately you just can't do it. I want to learn. When was this? Your question. A screenshot from two hours ago—two hours ago. 25 years. Right. Mmhmm.

就是。 比如说你在做那个那个的时候。 他他转圈的时候。 你最近就不行了。 我要学呀。 这是什么时候的？ 你的问题。 两小时前截图的两小时前。 25年。 对。 嗯。

Maybe. Right.

可能。 对。

I still have to think about him. How is he— They are. Did it change?

我还是要想他。 他是怎么。 他们是。 是不是变了一个。

Did they record a session? It feels like that. Which one do you think is better? II think that one, that one. I won't reopen that project again. What do you mean? Oh. Mmhmm. Don't die. If you talk, don't water it. Just leave it there.

是不是录制过一场。 感觉那个。 你觉得比较好的是哪个。 我我觉得那个那个。 我不再重新开放那个项目。 什么意思。 哦。 嗯。 别死了。 讲的话不浇水。 就放在那。

But the cover is getting more and more airy.

可是发布面变得更越来越有气。

Alright. His consistency.

好吧。 他一致性。

What does that mean? Alright, it seems he's not really like that either.

什么意思啊。 好吧好像他也不是不是很那个的。

Then use that transition.

然后利用那个转场。

Just visually attract it, and I'll focus on that. I said, maybe we can be together. Me. I didn't really care that much, but because God kept saying it, kept saying it. It's very important.

就视觉吸引和我去关注那个。 我说是不是我们可以在一起。 我。 我本来是没这么在意的但是因为神在一直在说一直在说。 很重要。

If. He's completely an outsider. I definitely won't mind the background.

如果。 完全是一个门外汉。我肯定不会介意背景。

But. No. Then online, his— Mmhmm. Which one are you guys? We're planning to. Right, then we're different. We split up. He's 30, I'm 12. Because I want to, I want to. I want to ride the wave. Hahaha. Ride the sightseeing spot. You're the one from that system rules thing. Yeah. He likes this.

但是。 没有。 那他网上的。 嗯。 你们是哪个。 我们打算。 对那我们不一样了。 分开了。 他是30我是12。 因为我要我要。 我要蹭。 哈哈哈。 蹭景点。 你是那个系统那个规则那次。 对呀。 他喜欢这个。

No, because—

没有因为。

Because I can add it, and then that— Uh, the banquet and drinks affect it. And then I can already sing.

因为我可以可以添加然后那个。 呃宴席谢酒影响。然后我已经可以唱了。

Does he have it? No, not really. What? Okay good.

他有没有。 没有啊。 什么。

Can you talk? I know he talked about it yesterday afternoon. We all know what he talked about. Oh, okay. And we talked about it in the group chat. What about you? Are you looking for that one, or— I'll tell you. Looking for the picture. For this one, you have to go look for the picture. Let me take a look. Oh, wrong exhibit. So we can't do it on this. Oh, the wrong exhibit main list is there.

好，行。 你能讲吗。 我知道他昨天下午就讲了。 我们都知道讲什么。 哦好。 然后我们在群里有说。 那你呢。 你是找足那个还是。 跟你说。 找图。 这个得去找图。 我看一下。 哦错展。 就不能在这上面做。 哎呀错展主表在。

Didn't I come yesterday? Let me think. Actually, we— We—we were already discussing it yesterday afternoon. The second group and the third group, actually— Yeah. And then, and then—

我昨天没来吗。 我想想。 实际上我们。 我们。我们昨天下午已经在讨论。 第二组跟第三组其实。 是啊。 然后然后。

It's like we already—well, basically— For now, it's in this format. Right. Group 1 and 3 give something more or less similar. Like giving that one together. And then— I get this. Okay, let Group 2 edit it again. A habit, or—right. Decide what style and all that. Then drop Group 3 and apply.

我们已经好像是就是。 目前是按照这个形式。 对。 一一三组给出一个差不多差不多的。 就是像一起给出那个。然后就。 这个我懂。 好给第二第二组让他们去再再修改。 习惯或者对。 什么风格什么再去定。 然后再抛个第三组去申请。

It should be more broadly divided.

应该就是一个分得比较开。

And then it's unrestricted.

然后就是无条条。

The link is what that group provided. This is the content for your Group 2. You decided. Right. If there are no rules, then they're your rules. Unconditional trust.

链接那是一组给的东西。 这是你们第二组的内容。你们定的。 对。 就是没有规则就是你们的规则。 无条件信任。

Because he hasn't shut it down. And there's that landing window over there.

因为他一一直没关。 还有那边的落地窗。

He even put that up yesterday.

他昨天还有放那个。

Me now. You're far away from him. Yes, yes, yes. We fully understand ourselves. Yeah, he's responsible for translating what we don't understand into what we do understand. No news at all. I think what's said in language is all a loss. Even if he speaks Chinese, everyone understands it differently. Mmhmm.

我现在。 你离他远了。 对对对。 我们完全理解自己。 对啊负责把我们完全不理解的东西翻译成我们能理解的东西。 完全没有消息。 我觉得语言讲的那些都是损失。就是他讲的即使是中文每个人理解都不一样。 嗯。

Yeah.

是啊。

A dedicated translation.

专门的翻译。

And after you hear what he says, In the end, when you put it into practice, everyone will have a huge gap. Yeah.

而且你听完他他讲的话。 你最终就是实践操作的时候会有每个人都有巨大的差距。 对啊。

I feel like we're two people. What he talked about today—I don't know if you remember. It's kind of like what he was saying. A minority. Yesterday he was like that too. I'm kind of like that. Up to now, we've all been studying it.

我感觉我们是两个。 他今天讲那个我不知道你们记不记得。就是有点像那个他讲的东西。 少数人。 以前他昨天也是。 我有点像那个。 到现在为止都是在研究。

He's already started—he's already in the banquet world. This kind of discussion has actually already begun.

他已经开始他已经宴席界已经。 这种讨论其实就已经在开始了。

I think, for the whole big city—

我觉得整个大城市的。

How do we open it up? You tell me. The older sister. Hahaha. Is that how it is? It's not just the whole—everyone's life is the same. No rules are okay. That's how it is. Days just passed day by day. Struggling again and again.

怎么开。你说。 大姐了。 哈哈哈。 就是这样吗。 整个不止大整个人生都一样。 没有规则可以。 就是这样。 日子一天一天就过去了。 折腾又折腾。

Hahaha.

哈哈哈。

Got it, got it, got it. -- Okay. I think now it works. Perfect. So, great. And yeah, politics—no, that's perfect. In a way, because it's actually the lecture today is about the founding, it says, "There is no legitimate first move," that's basically the thing. Yeah, if you—if the person has read the text, they can come in; otherwise they should—yeah,

有了有了有了。

they can still come in, because I just started. It's fine. Yeah. Okay.

好的。 我觉得现在可以了。 完美。 那太好了。 对，还有政治——不，这太完美了。 某种程度上是因为今天的讲座其实是 关于"founding"，它说， "没有任何正当的第一步，" 基本就是这个意思。 对，如果你——如果这个人读过这篇文本， 他可以进来； 否则他应该——对，

So, uh— But, yeah, just come in and sit down.

他还是可以进来， 因为我刚开始。 没问题。 嗯。 好的。

Uh, so, I'm going to go through that systematically, yeah? On the first day, we said that the vibe arrives before we can explain it, yeah? Then we said that there are, um, three layers and the power is in the middle. Then we said the rules are the material and the charter is the artwork. We'll come to that.

那，呃—— 不过，对，就进来坐下吧。

And today I want to talk about what has been happening in this room in the last 3 days. So, for 3 days we have been trying to organize ourselves and for quite a long time not that much happened, yeah? Right, from the feeling. And now, I want to be very clear about this, because it's really important.

呃，那我会把这个系统性地过一遍，好吗？ 第一天，我们说氛围会先到来 在我们还能解释之前，对吧？ 然后我们说，嗯，存在三个层面 权力在中间。 接着我们说，规则是那种材料 而章程是艺术作品。 我们会讲到这个。

That's not a failure. In the opposite, it's not laziness, it's not a student or a teacher problem. What happened in the room is the oldest problem in political philosophy, and we walked straight into it and right with our bodies, right here. Yeah? Here it is. So, suppose we want to decide something.

今天我想谈谈这些年发生了什么 在这个房间里，过去3天里。 所以，这3天我们一直在努力 把自己组织起来，而且很长一段时间里 也没发生太多事，对吧？ 对，从感觉上来说。 现在，我想把这一点说得很清楚， 因为这真的很重要。

So, here is the problem: what that we walked into. Suppose we want to decide something by voting, yeah? Fine. First we need a rule. Who is allowed to vote? And how many votes are enough to win? So, where does that rule come from? We have to decide about it, right? But how? By voting? But to vote on it,

这不是失败。 相反，这不是懒惰， 也不是学生或老师的问题。 房间里发生的事，是最古老的问题 在政治哲学里， 我们直接走进去 就这样，带着我们的身体，就在这里。 对吧？ 就在这里。 那么，假设我们想决定一些事情。

we need a rule about who may vote. And that rule must be decided. By a vote. So it goes backwards forever. There's no first step that is already legitimate. Every rule needs an earlier rule to authorize it. And at the very beginning, there is nothing.

那么，问题在这里： 我们走进去的那个东西。 假设我们想决定某件事 通过投票，对吧？ 好。 首先我们需要一条规则。 谁可以投票？ 还有有多少票足够 赢？ 那么，这条规则从哪里来？ 我们得先决定它，对吧？ 但怎么决定？ 通过投票？ 但要对它投票，

So every constitution in history begins with an unauthorized act. Somebody stands up without permission, without any right to do it, and says, "This is how we will decide."

我们需要一条规则，规定谁可以投票。 而且这条规则必须被决定。 通过一票投票。 所以它一直往回追溯。 没有任何第一步是已经合法的。 每条规则都需要一个更早的规则 来予以授权。 而在最开始， 什么都没有。

Nobody voted for that person to say that. There's no legitimate first move. Bounding is always in a small way a violence. An overstepping of boundary. And that is why we hesitate: we will waiting for permission that does not exist. We will waiting for someone in this room to have the right to begin,

所以历史上每一部宪法 都以一项未经授权的法案开头。 有人在未经许可的情况下站出来， 没有任何权利去做， 然后说："我们就这样做决定。"

and nobody ever has the right to begin, not you, not me, anybody.

没人投票让那个人这么说。 没有任何正当的第一步。 约束总会以某种小程度上 构成一种暴力。 一种越界。 所以我们才会犹豫： 我们会等着获得许可 但那种许可并不存在。 我们会等这个房间里的某个人 有权开始，

But you can take it, this right, and see what happens. But then something very interesting happened. When we finally did start, when we started organizing ourselves, appointing people, arguing, about who leads the words that came into this room were not the words of art.

而且从来没有人有权开始， 不是你，不是我，任何人。

They were political words. Words about founding, about power, about committees, about who takes charge. We were joking. But the joke arrived instantly, and everybody understood it.

但你可以把这个权利拿走， 看看会发生什么。 但随后发生了一件很有意思的事。 当我们终于开始的时候， 当我们开始组织自己时， 任命人、争论， 关于谁来带领这个房间里传进来的话语 那并不是艺术的话语。

So I want us to notice that because it is not a small thing, when 20 artists have to invent a procedure out of nothing, the only script available might be a political script. Not an artistic one. Nobody reached for a metaphor about painting. We reached for the language of the state. And that is not a fact

那是政治性的话语。 关于创立、关于权力的话语， 关于委员会、关于谁来掌权。 我们在开玩笑。 但笑话立刻就来了， 而且所有人都明白了。

about China. That is a fact about founding. That would happen anywhere in the world. The vocabulary of beginning is always political, because founding is always political.

所以我希望我们注意到 因为这不是一件小事， 当20位艺术家必须发明一套流程时 从一无所有出发， 唯一可用的脚本可能就是 一份政治脚本。 不是艺术的脚本。 没人去追求一种隐喻 关于绘画的。 我们追求的是国家的语言。 而这并不是事实

So, if there is no legitimate first move, and we have to begin anyway, then the only honest thing is to choose our method openly, transparency, and know what it costs, the price of it. Yeah? Is it violence? Could be. A little bit of violence, a lot of violence. There is no free one. It's not, it's not for free.

关于中国。 这是关于创立的事实。 这在世界任何地方都会发生。 "开始"的词汇总是政治性的， 因为"创立"总是政治性的。

Consensus is one possibility. Everybody must agree. We talked about it yesterday. It's a basic democratic system. It protects every single person, and it hands total power to whoever refuses to move. One stubborn person governs the room. So there are, uh, in the legal system, there are juries. And there are some jury systems

所以，如果没有合法的第一步， 而我们还是必须开始， 那唯一诚实的做法就是 公开选择我们的方法， 透明， 并且知道它的代价是什么。 对吧？ 这是暴力吗？ 可能是。 一点点暴力， 很多暴力。 没有一个是免费的。 不是的，它不是免费的。

where everybody has to agree,

共识是一种可能性。 所有人都必须同意。 我们昨天谈过这个。 这是一个基本的民主制度。 它保护每一个人， 并把完全的权力交给 任何拒绝行动的人。 一个固执的人统治着整个房间。 所以在法律体系里，呃， 有陪审团。 而且有些陪审团制度

otherwise you cannot— You cannot, you cannot issue a judgment. Then there is majority. Fast, clean, easy to count. And the 49% have no recourse at all. They just lose. This is, I come from Switzerland, we are world champions in democracy because we are such a small country that it's very easy to do this

所有人都必须同意，

very, very tiny, very, very exact, very local democracy. We, we vote on everything and anything. You cannot believe what we vote on. It's very funny. I can do it online from China. It's super funny sometimes. But I learned very young that if you are— The 49.9% is 0.1% difference. Yeah? Might be in the Switzerland,

否则你就不能—— 你不能，你不能作出判决。 然后还有多数。 快、干净、容易计数。 而那49%完全没有诉求。 他们就是输了。 这是，我来自瑞士， 我们是民主领域的世界冠军 因为我们是个很小的国家 所以这件事非常容易做到

1,000 people are in a small election, 100 people. You have to accept it. It's just how it is. You just lose. And then there is consent or no objection. We proceed unless somebody raises a reasoned objection, and then we must stop and answer it. Notice something. This is our veto cause that I mentioned yesterday.

非常非常微小、非常非常精确， 非常局部的民主。 我们，我们对一切都投票。 你不可能相信我们投的是什么。 这很有意思。 我可以在中国的网上做。 有时候特别好笑。 但我很小就明白了，如果你—— 49.9%就是0.1%的差别。 对吧？ 瑞士可能是这样，

We already invented this, 2 days ago, without knowing kind of about literature and the whole background. It's also not necessary. We are smart people. We can understand that easily, or we know about it, right? Then there is delegation. So we appoint people, and they decide for us. This is representative democracy.

一小组选举里有1,000人， 有100人。 你得接受这一点。 事实就是这样。 你就是会输。 然后还有"同意"或"无异议"。 除非有人提出合理异议，我们才继续， 然后我们必须停下来回答。 注意一件事。 这就是我昨天提到的我们的否决理由。

It's efficient. We build, we buy speed. We sell control.

我们两天前就已经发明了这个， 却不了解一些相关文献 以及整个背景。 而且这也不是必要的。 我们是聪明人。 我们很容易理解这一点， 或者说我们知道它，对吧？ 然后还有委派。 所以我们任命人， 他们替我们做决定。 这就是代表性民主。

So we get the speed, but we give up control. And the price is that afterwards we no longer know what we would have decided. Because someone else decides for us. I appoint, I appoint you to be my representative in the school. For political things, decisions about the curriculum, about, I don't know, what you have say

它很高效。 我们建立起来，我们买下速度。 我们卖出控制。

in the school. And then for a year or two or four, you do, to the best that you can, and I cannot. I can be angry at you, but I have no legal right to enforce you to step down. And then there is sortition. I actually didn't know that. I, I, I found it, and it's in Gree— in Athens. So we draw a lot. Random.

所以我们拿到速度， 但我们放弃控制。 代价是之后 我们不再知道自己会怎么做决定。 因为会有别人替我们做决定。 我任命你，任命你作为我的代表 在学校里。 为了政治事务、关于课程的决定， 关于，我不知道，你在学校里说什么，

Athens, filled most of its public offices the way for, for 200 years. Aristotle wrote that election is oligarchic. And lottery is democratic. Think about why. Election selects people who are good at campaigning. They're good at talking, selling themselves, good at raising money to make campaigns. Et cetera, et cetera.

在学校里。 然后一年或两年或四年， 你尽你所能去做， 而我做不到。 我可以对你生气， 但我没有法律权利 去强制你辞职。 然后还有分配。 其实我之前不知道这个。 我，我，我发现了， 它在希腊——在雅典。 所以我们抽很多。 随机。

And campaigning is a skill that has nothing to do with governing. It's, it's marketing. It's, it's selling. It's— it's not. People who are good at governing, necessarily. And then the last one, is the benevolent dictator. Sorry, I was on the wrong slide. Here you can look it up. One person decides everything

雅典把大部分公共办公室都填满了， 已经这样了200年。 亚里士多德写过，选举是寡头制的。 而彩票是民主制的。 想想为什么。 选举会选出那些擅长 做竞选的人。 他们擅长说话、推销自己， 也擅长筹钱做竞选活动。 等等等等。

and everyone else may leave, or may copy the project and start their own version. This is, by the way, in software developing, it's called a fork. You know, on GitHub, you fork something else. So you work on a, on a, on a software project together, and now there are decisions. Like, in which direction do we go?

而竞选是一项技能， 与治理毫无关系。 它是、它是营销。 它是、它是推销。 它——它不是。 那些擅长治理的人， 未必是。 然后最后一个， 是"仁慈的独裁者"。 抱歉，我放错幻灯片了。 你可以在这里查一下。 一个人决定一切，

And you disagree very strongly. But the majority wants to go in this direction. And then you can just make a copy of the software, and you're allowed to do that. Make a copy of the software and start to developing it into the direction that you want. And then it's like a competition. And then it depends on who uses what,

其他人都可以离开， 或者复制这个项目， 然后开始做他们自己的版本。 顺便说一句，这在软件开发里， 叫做"forke"。 你知道的，在 GitHub 上， 你会把别的东西 forke 出去。 所以你们一起做一个软件项目， 然后就会有决策。 比如，我们要往哪个方向走？

or maybe there is for different applications, then you have different softwares and so on. This is how most software developments— open source software developments— are running on this planet. And how software is actually made. And now I want to tell you about the strangest form of decisionmaking. And it's true.

而你们会非常强烈地不同意。 但大多数人想往这个方向走。 然后你就可以直接复制这个软件， 而且你被允许这么做。 复制这个软件， 并开始按你想要的方向去开发它。 然后就像一场竞赛。 接着就看谁用什么，

It's really, really important. The people who wrote the protocols of the internet, the standards, the plumbing, the actual orchestration layer, not the lawyer, the actual orchestration layer of the entire network. They had to decide a lot of things. And they wrote down their principle. And it says, literally says that,

或者可能是针对不同应用， 于是你就会有不同的软件等等。 这就是大多数软件开发——开源软件开发—— 在这个星球上运行的方式。 以及软件实际是如何被创造出来的。 现在我想跟你们讲讲最奇怪的决策方式。 而且这是真的。

"We reject kings— presidents and voting." I say it again: "We reject kings— presidents and voting." And they say, "We believe in rough consensus, and running code." I'll say this again: maybe it does a different translation. "We believe in rough consensus, and running code." So not full consensus, rough.

这真的、真的很重要。 写出互联网协议的人， 标准、管道， 真正的协调层， 不是律师，是整个网络的真正协调层。 他们必须做出很多决定。 他们把自己的原则写下来。 而且文字里写着，确实是这么写的：

About— like this. And running code. Code that just functions. Functionality over good ideas. And that should be very important for you as artists. It's much more important than sometimes if it works. And how it works, rather than if it's a brilliant idea and you can explain it in a great way or something like that.

"我们拒绝国王——总统和投票。" 我再说一遍： "我们拒绝国王——总统和投票。" 他们还说， "我们相信粗略共识， 以及运行代码。" 我再说一遍： 也许它的翻译方式不一样。 "我们相信粗略共识， 以及运行代码。" 所以不是完全共识，而是粗略的。

So they do not vote. They hum.

关于——就像这样。 以及运行代码。 一种只会运作的代码。 功能胜过好点子。 而这对你们作为艺术家来说应该非常重要。 有时候它比它能不能用还要重要得多。 而且重要的是它怎么运作，而不是它是不是个绝妙的点子， 你还能把它用很棒的方式解释出来之类的。

Humming.

所以他们不投票。 他们哼哼唱唱。

This is genius. Somebody makes a proposal, and the room hums in favor, and the room hums against, and the chairperson listens to which hum was louder and declares the outcome. Declares in which direction it should go. In terms of what is louder. You could use that, or we could use that here. It's a very intelligent way.

哼唱。

And now it's— I explain why.

这太天才了。 有人提出一个提案， 全场都哼着赞成， 全场又哼着反对， 主席会听哪个哼得更大声， 然后宣布结果。 宣布它应该往哪个方向走。 也就是哪个更响。 你可以用这个，或者我们也可以在这里用这个。 这是一种非常聪明的方式。

So— so the people who built this middle layer of the entire internet, you do not probably know about this, but there are so many protocols. They are there for 50, 60 years. TCP/IP. That is the basic protocol on what the internet runs. Um, um, the mail— the mail protocols, the— they're— there are so many protocols.

现在就是——我来解释为什么。

That define how communication works. And it has a big impact on how the internet worked, which has a big impact on what you can do on the internet, and how it affects— it affects you in a big way. Yeah.

所以——所以那些构建了这层中间层的人， 构建了整个互联网的人，你可能不太了解这个， 但有太多协议。 它们存在了50年、60年。 TCP/IP。 这就是互联网运行的基本协议。 嗯，嗯，邮件——邮件协议， 它们——它们——协议太多了。

I tell you this because it should loosen something. It should make clear to us, and for me it's also a learning process, I'm here with you. I'm lecturing, but I'm here with you. I see this as a we, and not a you, and I. Yeah. There is no correct system.

这些决定了通信是如何运作的。 而且它对互联网的运行方式有很大影响， 这也很大程度影响了你在互联网上能做什么， 以及它如何影响——它会在很大程度上影响你。 对。

There is no correct system. There is no adult in the room who knows the real procedure. I might be the teacher, but I don't know. If a teacher tells you that they know, they are lying. It's not true. They don't know. They just pretend. Or they even think that they know.

我跟你们说这个，是因为它应该能放松一点。 它应该让我们清楚地明白， 而对我来说这也是一个学习过程， 我和你在一起。 我在讲课，但我和你在一起。 我把这看作是"我们"，而不是"你"， 而且是"我"。 对。 没有一个正确的系统。

So— I don't know it either. These are all inventions. Somebody made them up. And we allowed to make one up too. You can make up your own reality. You do it anyway. Any day. Every day. You just don't really feel it, because it just happens. So we are allowed to make it up ourselves. Procedures. Reality.

没有一个正确的系统。 房间里没有任何大人 知道真正的流程。 我也许是老师， 但我不知道。 如果老师告诉你 他知道， 那他就是在撒谎。 这不是真的。 他们不知道。 他们只是装作不知道。 或者他们甚至以为自己知道。

Knowledge. Everything. And now to the point that connects all of us, and all of this back to the vibe, to the feel. The feel of an institution does not come from its images. It comes from its procedures. We already know this. We can walk into an office and feel the bureaucracy. In a hospital. In a government office.

所以—— 我也不知道。 这些全都是编造的。 有人把它们编出来了。 而且我们也允许自己编一个。 你可以编造你自己的现实。 反正你也会这么做。 每天都会。 每一天。 你只是并不真正感受到它， 因为它就是会发生。 所以我们可以自己编造出来。 流程。 现实。

Et cetera. I think we talked about this a little bit. We already know that. We can enter a group of friends and feel that they have like a— they're like a cult. They're like, weird, in a certain way. But it's not clear what it is. But it's weird. You feel that.

知识。 一切。 现在说到这一点， 它连接着我们所有人， 把这一切又接回到那种氛围里， 回到那种感觉。 一个机构的感觉 不来自它的形象。 它来自它的流程。 我们已经知道这一点。 我们可以走进一间办公室 去感受官僚主义。 在医院里。 在政府办公室里。

We can smell a startup. Nobody hung a picture on the wall and to produce that feeling. The rules produced it. The way decisions get made produced that.

等等。 我想我们之前谈过这个 一点点。 我们已经知道了。 我们可以走进一群朋友 感觉他们好像有个—— 他们像个教派。 他们在某种意义上很奇怪。 但并不清楚 那到底是什么。 但它很奇怪。 你能感觉到。

And we can hear a rule. That is what I want us to understand today. A procedure has a frequency. A voting system has a vibe. Which means that when we write our charter, we are not doing paperwork before the art starts. We are manufacturing the vibe. The charter is the vibe machine. That is what I call foundationism.

我们能闻到一家初创公司的味道。 没人把一幅画挂在墙上 就为了制造那种感觉。 是规则把它制造出来的。 决策的方式 也把这种感觉制造出来了。

I wrote the manifesto and today in the DD, when I came over here, I was preparing— finishing the lecture, but I was also transforming the manifesto into a charter, because it's much more interesting. A manifesto is like a declaration of truth. A charter is something completely different.

而我们能听到一条规则。 这就是我希望我们明白的 今天。 一种流程有它的频率。 一套投票系统有它的氛围。 这意味着当我们写宪章时， 我们不是在做文书手续 在艺术开始之前。 我们是在制造那种氛围。 宪章就是氛围机器。 这就是我所说的"基础主义"。

So I. Use foundationism with the layers and the infrastructure. That's what I think is where the art is happening right now. So it's not decorating the surface. Building the thing on the need that generates the surface. That's what it is about. And so I leave us with one question today, and I'm not going to answer it,

我写了宣言 而今天在DD里， 当我来到这里时， 我正在准备——把讲座收尾， 但我也在把宣言转化 成一份宪章， 因为它要有趣得多。 宣言就像一种宣言 关于真理的。 宪章是完全不同的东西。

because I don't think I have the right to. So we have three groups.

所以我。 用"基础主义"来说层次 以及基础设施。 我认为这就是 艺术此刻正在发生的地方。 所以这不是在装饰表面。 是在把东西建在需求之上 也就是产生表面的东西。 这就是它的核心。 所以今天我留给大家一个问题， 我不会回答它，

So we have these three groups, right? Kind of producers, kind of curators, and we have systems people. And there is an order between them. Or not. I don't think there is an order. But I formulated it in a way that it says that there is an order, because we were working that way. You were talking about 321, 123.

因为我不认为我有这个权利。 所以我们有三个群体。

But which direction does the authority run?

所以我们有这三个群体，对吧？ 算是制片人，算是策展人， 还有系统人员。 而且他们之间有一种秩序。 也可能没有。 我不认为有什么秩序。 但我把它表述成了一种方式， 让人觉得确实有一种秩序， 因为我们当时就是那样在做。 你在讲321、123。

Does it flow downward? From here? Or upward? Which direction does the authority run? The system group forms first. Designs the structure. Appoints the curator. And the curator's commission the producers. That is very efficient. That is probably how a lot of things work. It's also exactly the shape of a corporation, which is the thing

但权威是朝哪个方向运作的？

I have been warning us about for the last days. And all my life, because I think corporations are the most dangerous thing that exists on the planet. They're actual living things. They're organisms. They are profitdriven, which makes them extremely dangerous, because they are not human. And they don't care about humans.

它是向下流动的吗？ 从这里？还是向上？ 权威是朝哪个方向运作的？ 系统群体最先形成。 设计结构。 任命策展人。 策展人委派制片人。 这非常高效。 很多事情大概就是这样运作的。 它的形状也完全一样， 就像一家公司，这正是我想要的东西，

They only care about profit. It seems that they care about humans because corporations employ humans.

我一直在提醒我们， 这几天一直如此。 而且一直以来，因为我认为 公司是最危险的东西， 是地球上最危险的存在。 它们是真实存在的生命。 它们是有机体。 它们以利润为导向， 这就让它们极其危险， 因为它们不是人。 而且它们不在乎人。

So— or does it flow the other way up? Yeah? Upwards. The producers hold the mandate. Because without material, there's nothing to arrange. They appoint the curators, who then use— say how the material is being transformed and published and so on. And the curators appoint the systems group. And the system group can be removed

它们只在乎利润。 看起来它们在乎人类， 因为公司雇用人。

by the people below. That's also legitimate. It's slow. It may stall. But it's a very legitimate way to look at it. So for three days we have been arguing about whether the process goes 123, 321. And I want to suggest that that was never really the question about workflow. It always was a question about legitimacy.

所以——还是说它会朝相反方向往上流动？ 对吧？向上。 制片人掌握着这个命令。 因为没有材料，就没有任何东西可以安排。 他们任命策展人， 然后他们再决定——比如材料如何被转化， 如何发表等等。 而策展人任命系统群体。 系统群体可以被移除，

About who authorizes whom. And here's the last thing, and it's the most important thing I will say today. We do not have to answer this question before we begin. We just answer it by beginning.

由下面的人来做。 这也是合法的。 它很慢。 可能会卡住。 但这是一种非常合法的看法。 所以这三天我们一直在争论， 这个过程是按123还是321。 我想提出， 这其实从来就不是真正的问题， 关于工作流程的问题。 它一直都是个问题， 关于合法性。

Everything starts like that, in my opinion. We just start. But that's very difficult. It's like— especially with 20 people. You feel bad. I feel bad when I'm the person who starts to talk and talk. I have legitimacy to talk here, because I'm appointed to teach. I'm paid for that. And so on and so on.

关于谁授权谁。 最后一点是， 这也是我今天要说的最重要的。 我们不必先回答这个问题， 在开始之前。 我们只要一开始就回答它。

I would feel very bad to talk for 20 minutes and to close the door. And to be an asshole. If I was not legitimized by the system. But when I do art, that's not the case. Or when we do projects in larger groups or with bigger teams. There is a social aspect. There is a political aspect. There is a functional aspect.

在我看来，一切都是这样开始的。 我们就直接开始。 但这非常困难。 就像——尤其是有20个人时。 你会感到难受。 当我是那个开始谈论的人时，我会很难受， 一直说个不停。 我有权在这里发言， 因为我被任命来教导。 我为此拿到报酬。 诸如此类。

A technical aspect that all fall into place. There are these thoughts. What is smarter? Can we do everything at the same time? I would— I would do that.

我会非常难受， 要讲20分钟， 然后把门关上。 还要当个混蛋。 如果我没有得到系统的合法化。 但当我做艺术时，情况并非如此。 或者当我们以更大的群体来做项目时， 或者与更大的团队合作时。 这里面有社会层面。 也有政治层面。 还有功能层面。

So— We do not have to answer that question. Before we begin, we answer it by beginning. And you have been doing that, and that's why I was so happy yesterday and the day before. Because I heard your conversations, and that was the beginning. It might not have felt like that for you, because you think,

还有技术层面，这些都会自然对上。 会有这些想法。 哪个更聪明？ 我们能不能一次把所有事情都做完？ 我会——我会这么做。

what the fuck, we haven't done shit yet. But you actually did. We have done a lot. We have learned a lot together. And we have discussed things that are fundamentally important for us as humans, as artists, for our future and for the now.

所以—— 我们不必回答那个问题。 在开始之前，我们先回答它， 就是先从开始讲起。 而你一直在这么做， 所以我昨天才会那么开心， 前一天也是。 因为我听了你们的对话， 那就是开始。 对你们来说，可能不会是那种感觉， 因为你们会想，

So the three groups, I suggest three groups start working now. Not after the structure is agreed. We don't have to discuss that. Just now. Each group works on its own layer, and then we move toward each other in small steps. You know— we— It'll work. And if it doesn't, we learned a lot. And individual decides something.

搞什么鬼，我们还什么都没干。 但你们其实做了。 我们做了很多。 我们一起学到了很多。 我们也讨论过一些事情， 这些对我们的工作至关重要， 作为人类、作为艺术家， 对我们的未来，也对当下都很重要。

A small group negotiates with another small group. Somebody proposes a rule, and somebody else refuses it. A producer sends material, and the curator starts to arrange it in a way. The producer never intended. And they argue. And out of that argument, a rule is written that neither of them would have written

所以我建议这三个群体， 现在就开始工作。 不要在结构达成一致之后。 我们不必讨论这个。 就现在。 每个群体在自己的层面上工作， 然后我们再彼此靠近， 一步一步来。 你知道——我们—— 会有效的。 如果不行， 我们学到了很多。 而且每个人都会决定一些事情。

alone. This will look like, chaos. And it will be chaos. But it will be organized chaos. Because every negotiation leaves something behind. A rule, a refusal, a name, a procedure. And these deposits accumulate. You have more and more and more over time. That is how an entity is made. Not designed from above.

小组与另一个小组进行协商。 有人提出一条规则， 而另一个人拒绝。 制片人发送素材， 策展人开始把它安排好， 以某种方式来安排。 制片人从未打算这样做。 然后他们争论。 而从这场争论里， 写下了一条规则， 这条规则他们两个人都不会写，

And then filled in. Negotiated from the middle outward, in small steps, by people who do not yet agree. We started this week with nothing. No name, no rules, no structure, no material.

单独写出来。 这看起来会像一团混乱。 而且会一团乱。 但这会是一种有组织的混乱。 因为每一次协商都会留下些什么。 一条规则、一个拒绝、一个名字， 一套流程。 而这些沉积会不断累积。 随着时间推移，你会有越来越多。 这就是一个实体的形成方式。 不是从上面来设计的。

In a three days, two and a half days, we will have a thing that exists in the world and behaves according to laws we wrote ourselves. Something real, out of nothing. And this is not a metaphor for art. This is the art. So my call now to you is: let's go. Make it move. I'll help you.

然后再把它填补进去。 从中间向外协商， 以小步骤， 由那些还没达成一致的人来做。 我们这周一开始什么都没有。 没有名字，没有规则，没有结构，没有材料。

Yeah. Want to start working? Okay. Cool. Let's do this. I'm here. I'm going to be just around or be in the office if you need me, or here. And you just group and work.

三天内，或者两天半内， 我们会有一个在世界上存在的东西， 并且按照我们写下的规律行事， 这些规律是我们自己写的。 某种真实的东西，从虚无中诞生。 而这并不是个比喻， 来形容艺术。 这就是艺术。 所以我现在对你们的呼吁是： 我们开始吧。 让它动起来。 我会帮你。

You're asked to push. Push, yeah. Yeah, I know that you're pushy. I can see that. That's very good. Go for it.

对。 想开始工作吗？ 好。 行。 我们开始吧。 我在这儿。 我会在周围待一会儿， 或者如果你需要我，就在办公室， 或者就在这里。 你们就分组工作。

Talk a bit about the visit. It's ready. Go.

你们被要求推进。 推进，是的。 对，我知道你们很爱推进。 我看得出来。 那很好。 去做吧。 讲一下访问。 准备好了。

So what are you visiting? And we just have the idea, and we send to the group. Yeah. Make sure it's good. If Dr. Yeah, start with that. Okay. I would— I mean, I think the group is a good— is a good medium to— because everybody sees it. Yeah. You can publish there. You can put in ideas. I think text is important. Not only images.

开始。 那你访问什么？

Just text. Sentences. Statement. Something. What? Okay.

我们只是有个想法， 然后发给小组。 对。 确保它是好的。 如果Dr.。 对，就从那个开始。 好。 我会——我是说，我觉得 小组是个好——是个很好的媒介 因为大家都能看到。 对。 你可以在那里发布。 你可以写一些想法。 我觉得文字很重要。 不只是图片。

Oh, oh, oh. That's time to translate. That's fine. That's fine. I can do that. I can actually— it does that. Okay.

只要文字。 句子。 陈述。 什么都行。 什么？ 好。

And who is that?

哦，哦，哦。 这就该翻译了。 没问题。 没问题。 我能做到。 我其实——它就是会这样。 好。

And is it for the— Yeah. The rules group? It's for the— for the rules group. For the— for the systems group? Or for the— Yes. Uhhuh. Okay. Oh, cool, cool, cool.

那是谁？

Okay.

那是给——的吗？ 对。 规则小组？ 是给——给规则小组的。 给——给系统小组的？ 还是给—— 对。 嗯哼。 好。 哦，行行行。

Goodie.

好。

I think it's needed. He has the translation done. Wait a second. Okay. Information.

真棒。 我觉得需要。 他有翻译完的。 等一下。 好的。 信息。

Which video is this? Select the video and add it in. With a cover. It's like in a short text, you show a dynamic text, but it's actually also a continuous text.

这个 video 哪个？ Video 选进去。 带封面。 这是就像是你在一个短文里面，你出现了一个动态的文字，但其实它也是一个连贯的文字。

You explain it to him first. Just explain it briefly. Mmhmm. It's best if it's like this. Yeah. Work. Yeah.

你先给他讲一下。简单讲一下。 嗯。 最好是这样的。

Okay. Question. No, it was to share this and explain a bit. Yeah, I understood. I read it. Also, I need to introduce—

对。 工作。 对。 好。

Okay.

问题。 不，是要分享这个。 再稍微解释一下。 对，我明白了。 我读过了。 另外，我需要介绍一下——

Do you still need the website? Yeah, go on. I have a thing running anyway. I can— I can hear you. I can understand you. And you can speak in Chinese.

好。 需要的网站还需要？

You can speak Chinese. Or do you want to just explain it to me? Or to the group? To all the people. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Just speak out. Speak up a little bit. Okay. You can—

对，继续。 反正我这边有个东西在跑。 我能——我能听到你。 我能听懂你。 而且你会说中文。 你可以说中文。

You can translate. Yeah.

还是你想直接给我解释？ 还是给小组解释？ 给所有人解释。 对，对。 好。 就直接说出来。 说大一点。 好。 你可以—— 你可以 translate。

He can open the file. And also open the— Go. Yeah, yeah. Okay. A little presentation you want to do. I didn't understand. Yeah. A little present— yeah. I mean, it works. So you do the presentation. Okay. I get it. I get it. Okay. We'll do it. So I can read a little bit. Okay. You tell him you went to scroll.

对。 他可以把文件打开。

That's it. I want to make a website, and this site is kind of like some test questions we usually do, or some games that get shared in those mini apps. And this game, we select related images, and those images include wallets and other images.

还可以打开—— 开始。 对，对。 好。 你想做一个小演示。 我没听懂。 对。 一个小演示——对。 我是说，它能用。 所以你做演示。 好。 我明白了。 我明白了。 好。 我们就这么做。 这样我就能读一点。 好。 你告诉他你去滚动了。 就是这个。我想做一个网站，然后大概这个网站有点像是我们平时做的一些测试题啊，或者一些会被分享到那种小程序里面的一些游戏。然后这个游戏呢，就是我们通过选择相关联的图像，那这个图像就包括一些钱包或什么图等等。

Then we finally generate a short text. And the rough process is, for example, when you open the website, there may be an entry point, and of course we create that entry point, so I can just, for example, the entry point might be that I open it and write something, and when I click in, it becomes an image, for instance, this here is an example,

然后最后去形成一个短文。 然后它大概的流程就是，可能一打开网站，它可能还有一个入口，我当然我们有做那个入口，就是我直接就，比如那个入口有可能是我开启去写一段东西，然后一点进去它就是一个图像，就是比如说这边就是范例，

the example is that there's an emoji here, and below there are four emojis too, something like that. Then you can choose any one, an emoji that's very related to it, for example, I want to choose this one, this is a translation we did in class that day, and after you choose it, when you select this emoji, it will jump to the next page,

范例就是这里有个表情包，然后下面也有四个表情包，类似这样。然后你就可以选择任意一个，跟它很相关的表情包，就比如说我想选的是这个，这个是我们那天上课的一个翻译啊，然后选完这个之后呢，你选择这个表情包就会跳到下一页，

as the main emoji. Then based on that emoji, you choose the next related emoji, and then you... All right. So—

作为这个主的表情包。然后你再根据这个表情包选择下一个相关联的表情包，然后你。

And so on. Okay. Let's see. Better? Yes.

好的。 所以—— 然后以此类推。

And finally, we output a short text. And it can be in two formats, one is directly combined with images, for example, I just picked three, and put them together, they might have a bit of a story, or they convey an emotion to everyone. And there's also a presentation method,

好。 我们来看看。 更好了吗？ 是的。 然后最后我们就输出一个短文。 然后它可能有两种形式，一个是以图片直接拼接，就比如说我随便找了三个，然后把它们拼在一起，它们可能就有一点点故事性，或者是一个有一个情绪传达给大家。 然后也有一种展示方法，

where you directly extract the text from the emoji, and turn it into a sentence. So there are basically two presentation methods. And I only put three here. So for example, if we choose the gear icon, it will have 10 corresponding texts, and in the end it becomes a short text. And this short text is what you select,

是直接把表情包里的文字截取出来，然后形成一段话。大概就是两个展示方法。 然后我这里只放了三个嘛。那比如说如果我们选择齿轮的话呢，它就会有10个相对应的文字，然后最后就形成了一个小短文。那这个小短文就是你选择出来的，

your creation that belongs to your story, or, I don't know. That's roughly it. I came up with this small idea. And if there are a lot of details in it, if everyone can add just one sentence, and things like that. Okay.

你创作的属于你的故事，或者是 I don't know。 就是大概是这样子。我就想了一个这个小的 idea。然后里面有很多细节的话呢，如果大家一句话就可以往里面补充啊，什么之类的。

That's the end. Super. Thanks. Thanks. So it's great. So I would only suggest one thing. This is wonderful. Practical stuff. Oh, I think I already closed it here.

好。 结束。

I would just— exactly. So work on that, but also think about this like system. Just think about what you think, and write it in the group. It can be literally two minutes that you think about it, and you write one sentence. What you think about the whole thing. Because if you want to say, "I want to do a website,"

太棒了。 谢谢。 谢谢。 所以这很棒。 所以我只想建议一件事。 这太好了。 很实用的东西。 哦，我觉得我这边已经关掉了。

that is totally— I mean, we haven't decided— there is no decisions. You just do. That's the thing. You do. You make decisions by doing. And I want to just kind of try to leverage that with also thinking about the whole thing. Do you understand what I mean? Maybe. Yeah, just about the system. You can show the—

我只是——对，没错。 所以你们去做这个， 但也要把它当作一个系统来想。 就想想你自己怎么想， 然后写在群里。 这真的可以是两分钟， 你就用来思考它， 然后写一句话。 你对整个东西怎么想。 因为如果你想说， "我想做一个网站，"

Oh, sorry, sorry. Yeah, no, sorry. That's difficult. Okay. That's suddenly you have to be masters of English. No, no, no. No, sorry. Sorry. Oh well. So okay. Let's go here. So here. Thank you.

那完全——我是说， 我们还没决定——没有任何决定。 你就去做。 重点就在这。 你去做。 你通过做法来做决定。 我只是想试着 利用这一点，也去思考 整个东西。 你明白我的意思吗？ 也许。 对，就是关于这个系统。 你可以展示——

Yeah. Tell me when you write it.

哦，抱歉抱歉。 对，不是，抱歉。 这很难。 好。 这就说明你们突然得成为大师 英语方面的。 不不不。 不，抱歉。 抱歉。 算了。 那好吧。 我们到这里。 那就在这。 谢谢。

Okay.

嗯。 你写的时候告诉我。

Actually, I haven't yet. Yeah, just think about it, and write as if everybody thinks about this for one minute, you know? That would be so valuable for the group. If everybody just thinks, "Hmm, this system would be cool," and "This and this kind of curation would be cool," and "This and this product would be cool." Just one sentence.

好。 其实我还没。

That's now my contribution to the group. And you do not have to do that. Don't do it if you don't want to do it. It's just my contribution to the group. Take it or leave it. I'm going to do it, okay?

对，就想一想， 然后写得好像所有人都在想 这件事，比如想一分钟，你懂吧？ 那会非常有价值 对整个群来说。 如果大家都只是想， "嗯，这个系统会很酷，" 以及"这种这种策展 会很酷，" 以及"这种这种产品会很酷。" 就一句话。

It's okay, you can draw it all. Everyone in the group does it like this. I hope everyone can comment, whether they think it's OK or not. Mmhmm. Sure. Okay. Go on. Okay.

这就是我现在的贡献 给这个群的。 而你不必这么做。 如果你不想做，就别做。 不想做的话。 这只是我对这个群的贡献。 对这个群。 要么接受，要么不要。 我会去做的，好吗？ 没关系，你都画。大家群里都是大家这样做的。 希望大家就可以评论，就是他觉得 OK 还是不 OK。 嗯。 可以。

I have a very curious question I want to ask, like if that collection group, sends you some things, for example, images that don't contain text, or anything like that, how would you evaluate it?

好。 继续。 好。 我有一个很好奇的问题想问，就是如果那个收集那组，就是给你传送了一些，比如说没有不含有文字的图片或者什么的，那你会怎么去评估它？

Mm, actually that's it.

嗯，其实这就是。

My main understanding of that system is, I think we first set the rules, and then collect the data. Okay. That's the first point. The second point is, I just thought about it too, images of ancient writings, whether they can enter into this. I think it actually can. It's kind of like a...

我最谈那个系统一个 理解，就是我认为我们是先制定规则，然后再收集资料。 好。 这是第一点。 第二点就是，刚刚也思考了一下，就是古代文字的图像，能不能进入这个。 就是我觉得其实它是可以的。它有点像是一个。

A blank space. A toneassistant. It's a bit like ancient language. Right, it creates a kind of reaction. But I think this may need a certain proportion. For example, 30% with no text, and 7%. So the logic of this image assembly is, to assemble the images in the form of a wordtosound sequence.

空白。 语气助词。 就是有点像古代语言。 对，就是形成一种反应。 然后但是我觉得这个可能要有一定的比例。 比如说 30% 的没有文字的，7% 的。 所以这个图片它拼接的逻辑是，就是以一个文字语序的形式去拼接图片。

Mm. I mean, its... I just saw what you meant by "appearance." When you assemble it, it seems like there's no text. There is. There is. Right, that logic is something you can do yourself. Choose it yourself. But... Is it subjective when you choose, or is it, for example, generated by AI? You choose AI. It's irrelevant.

嗯。 就是它的。 我刚看你说的那个长相是。 拼接起来好像是没有文字。 有。 有。 对，就是这个逻辑是你自己可以做。 自己选。 但是。 它是主观去选取的，还是比如说 AI 生成的？ 你选 AI。 无关。

It can pull out some images, and then you choose based on your subjective preference. You mean the order in which these images are assembled is... You can set it yourself. But AI picks out a portion and shows it to you, and you choose it yourself. Mm. Then the point of assembling it is that... It means that everyone who comes to this website

它实力抽出来一些图片，然后你根据你的那个主观去选。 你的意思是这个图片的拼接顺序是。 可以自己定的。 不过它是 AI 抽了一部分给你展示的，你自己选取的。 嗯。 那这样拼接它的意义就是在于。 它的意思是每一个来这个网站，

will choose their own version. Mm. So what you see is the version you select, and what someone else sees is what he selects. It's DIY. Mm. Move it yourself. Okay. Second, the way it's presented is a kind of... for example, a wordtosound sequence formed from the text you picked subconsciously. Mm.

它会选它自己的版本。 嗯。 所以你看到的是你选取的版本，另外一个人看的是他选取的。 就 DIY。 嗯。 自己移动。好。 那第二就是它这样展现的是一种，比如说你潜意识里面选取的文字所形成的一种语序。 嗯。

My idea is that it's not meant to show something specific, I'm just saying you're creating something. Mm. Through the images I give you, these— things that have nothing to do with it, you created a bit of your own. Through what you create. Mm. More or less. Maybe creating it isn't the final result. You can provide something.

我的想法就是，它不是要展示一些什么，我只是你是在创造一个东西。 嗯。 你通过我给你这些图像，这些。 毫无关联的东西，你创造了一段你的。 通过你创造。 嗯。 差不多。可能创造不是最后的。 你给得到东西。

Right. That kind of feeling. It's like you created a bit of your own. It's actually the same as what you say normally. Mm. You just create it in a different form, and it might be stored on a web page. But when you click them, for example, they may realize the final result they end up showing,

对。 这种感觉。 就是你创造了一段你自己。 就跟你平时你自己说的话其实是一样的。 嗯。 只是你用另一个形式把它创造出来，然后它可能有一个网页的留存。 但它们在点的时候，比如说它们会有意识到，就是它们最后呈现的结果，

or they're unconscious clicks. They do have that, so I'm saying at first I didn't design it yet, so before we go in, we'll definitely tell you the rules first. I'll tell you what will end up forming in the end. They'll know what they're doing, more or less like that. So it's kind of like— from what I'm hearing,

还是说它们是无意识的点击。它们有啊，就是所以我就说我一开始那个还没有设计，那我们进入之前，我们肯定会先把规则告诉你。 我会告诉你最后会形成。 它们会知道它们在做什么，大概是这样。 所以它类似就是我听起来，

it's actually like a... a game where you click some domain names to generate something. Mm. Isn't it kind of like that, like the one from before? Right. That EDA expression from before? Mm. Do some things, and it can generate something like that. A little bit like this.

它其实就像是一个。 去点击一些域名去生成一段东西的一个游戏。 嗯。 就是它是不是有点像那个，就是之前那个。 对。 之前那个 EDA 的那个表示吗？ 嗯。 做一些事，它可以生成一个那种类似那样的。 一点点像这样子。

I think it's kind of like— There was a period with those paid shorts, like watching TV series, and you could choose the direction of the show. Mm. Like... Oh. Right, it's a bit like that. Yeah, like a TV series, and you want this person to do this next step, and you just pick it. Right? I think that's kind of...

我觉得有点像。 有一阵那个付费那个短，就是看电视剧，然后你可以选那个剧的走向。 嗯。 就。 哦。 对，有一点像那个。对，就是电视剧，然后你希望这个人下一步怎么样怎么样，就选完了。 是吧。 我觉得那个有点。

Mm. Yeah, these structures—those original memes— the original memes meant that, but if you don't assemble it directly, it becomes something new. Mm. But for example, say the image we want to provide is made from several images, and it has coherent meaning, or it has some contrasting meaning, and then you might break it up.

嗯。 对，这结构一些原先的那些梗图，原本的梗图是那个意思，但你直接不拼接起来，会成为新的东西。 嗯。 但比如说，比如说我们想提供的图，它是几张图之间，它是有连贯语义的，或是它是有一些对立的语义的，然后你可能会把它打散。

Mm. That works too. It won't keep the meaning completely, because what's provided online will be completely deconstructed. OK. Change all your ideas for me. Hahaha. The way it assembles, will it assemble directly, or will it merge into one image using AI? I just thought of another one that seems pretty similar,

嗯。 这样也可以。 就是它就不会保持完全的语义，就是网上提供的东西会被完全的解构。 OK。 把你的想法全部给我修改。 哈哈哈。 它拼接的方式，它会直接拼接吗，还是通过 AI 融在一块形成一张图的？ 我又想到一个我觉得蛮像的，

like, you know, it's not exactly the same, it's more like writing people, but it's not writing people. There's this one, called manzai or something, that kind of languagebased show, and you can, one connect to another and just ramble nonsense, you know, it's very broad and unforgettable, you don't have to go through that, the logical background content,

就是那个什么，就不是类似，是类似写人，但是不是写人。 就是有一个，就是叫漫才啊什么，就是那种语言类的节目，你就可以，就是一个接另外一个瞎胡说，你知道吗，就是非常发散的，不用通过那个，就是很逻辑的后面的内容，

it's the old content. Right, it's very jumpy, and it's very unforgettable, and it can catch people off guard with all sorts of things, but overall it's still really interesting. I think it's a bit like your picture version, but in a text version. Kind of. And I'll answer you, it's that, they give you this image,

是以前的内容。 对，就是很跳跃，然后就非常发散，然后让人家措手不及的听了什么跟什么，但是整体听下来又很有意思。我觉得有点像你这个图片版本，但是文字版。 有点。 然后我回答你，就是它，就是它们给你们把这个图，

it's the original, original image. No. It's just directly. No, it's not.

它就是原原本本的图。 不会。 就是直接。 不会啊。

Because yesterday I was with her, when the two of us were talking, we were discussing how secrets are created, a question like that, and because we both talked about it, when we first came across the model, it's more likely we found it on forums or places that were already discussed on Facebook. We had encountered it,

因为我昨天我跟她，我们俩聊的时候，就是我们在聊是关于秘密怎么产生的，这样一个问题，然后因为我们两个聊到，我们最先接触的模型的时候，比较可能是找到了在论坛或者 Facebook 上已经讲的地方。 接触过，

and now it's reached us, it's an evolution of it.

然后它到我们现在，就是它的一个演化。

Then it became something like a youngadult Asian culture that's become very mainstream, something everyone can use now, for example, something like Nailong, or similar ones, like Panda People. And then we tried to attribute it, but what we were thinking was maybe something niche, the word "niche" sounds kind of weird.

然后它到一个成为一个类似于同一个小时候亚文化的东西走向一个非常主流的，就是现在大家都能用，比如说类似奶龙，或者类似的，就是熊猫人这样的东西。 然后就是去做归因，其实我们想的是可能所谓的小众的，小众这词好奇怪。

Asianculturetype secrets, and nowadays you'd call them mainstream secrets, after going through this kind of evolution, it formed, meaning there are some differences, or rather, after it became mainstream, it was erased. Some of its original traits, for example, let me look— At an image, like.

亚文化类型的秘密和就是现在就是该说大众的秘密，它经过这样的流变，它形成了，就是它是有一些差异，或者说它走向主流之后，它消去了。 某些它原先的特质，比如说我找。 一张图片，就是。

I was in a—like.

我在一个就是。

I found a picture on Weibo under a friend with depression, like an OD type, a secret from their circle, let me look it up.

那种 抑郁症 OD 类的朋友的微博下面找到了一张，他们圈子里面的秘密，就是我找一下。

Like some secrets from their circle. And these kinds of things are already considered secrets with relatively low impact, I remember back then, secrets I might have seen on Tianya when I was kid, and some were about characters in some game being dismembered and things like that, that kind of secret.

就是有一些他们圈子里的秘密。 然后这些东西跟就是这已经算是杀伤力比较弱的秘密了，就是我当时回忆，我可能小时候在天涯上看到的秘密，还有一些是关于什么一些就是那个啥 game 里面的人物被肢解啊之类的，就是这种秘密。

And it's something very smallcircle language, and now as it gradually spreads, spreads, spreads, until it becomes something the public can share and use together, once it becomes something of consensus, it erased a lot of what it's supposed to be described as, things that are dangerous, or things that are rebellious,

然后它是一个非常就是小圈子语言的东西，然后当它现在慢慢流传，流传，流传到就是成为一个大众可以去共同的用，它成为一个共识性的东西之后，就是它消去了很多它本身的该怎么形容，就是危险性的东西，或者叛逆性的东西，

and it became something—like that passage the teacher posted you showed me earlier— it became something socalled mainstream, the original kind. And then one more. It's the place where they find works in exhibitions. Right. It became something gentle, originaltype. So I think these two kinds of secrets,

成为了一个就是就是我没来得及先就是你给我看的就是那个老师发的那段话，就是成为了一个所谓的主流的，就是原华的。 然后一个。 就是它在展览里的作品找的地方。 对。 成为了一个原华的温和的东西。 然后我觉得所以我觉得就是这两类的秘密，

might differ a bit, or maybe we should classify them that way.

它可能会有一些差异，或者说可能应当是否应该给它们去做分类吧。

You mean we first treat it as something that originally belonged to them.

你是说就是我们先让它就是这种以前他们原本分属于。

Internally within a certain type of circle, this is actually kind of like a— because earlier we discussed the expressions of the machines we see, the loyalty of those machines, or their deeper levels, and if it originally was— or if the secret we originally saw, what it involved was that when we see it,

类型的圈子里面的内部，就是这种其实它像是一种，因为我就是它先前不是讨论说我们所看到的遗材机器的表情，遗材机器的忠诚，或者遗材机器的深层，然后就是如果说它原先就是，或者说我们原先所看到的那个秘密，它所指涉的就是当我们看到它的时候，

it carries a certain degree of danger, and at the same time it also carries more, how should I put it, cultural meaning, or it carries more certainty, whether political or whatever other aspects it involves. And when it gradually turns into a joke, turns into humor, something kind of meaningless, like that "Nailong" laughing kind of thing,

它具有一定的危险度，同时它也带有更多的该怎么说，文化含义，或者它带有更多的确定性的，不管是政治或者是就是各种指涉什么的。然后当它逐渐就是走向一个玩笑，走向一个幽默，就是类似无意义的，比如说奶龙大笑那种的时候，

then actually, for— while it blurs those meanings, it helps people accept it better. It shifts into an expressive one, like the expression in the picture. I can understand what you just said, about the online culture of secrets, how it first was born with the development of the internet, and now, with our society,

然后它其实它为了，就是它去模糊化这些含义的同时，它让大家更好地去接受它。 就是它走向了一个表情的，它就像图片的表情一样。 我能理解就是刚刚说的那些，就是从秘密这个网络文化，它最初随着互联网发展诞生，到如今它随着我们社会，

as time has passed, a series of changes have occurred. I think this point, actually belongs to the "secret map," a trait of the culture itself, that is, a public kind of culture, and what I just said, as we view secrets, is a bit of reflection on the medium we use most.

就是我们的时间推移，发生了一系列的变化。就是我觉得这个点，它其实是属于秘密图，它这个文化本身的一个属性，就是公开就是那种文化，就是我觉得刚刚说的那个，它是作为我们对于秘密，它我们比较使用的这个媒介本身的一点思考。

Because it may not be just images and information alone, it has some history. Actually, one of my thoughts is: should we present its middle layer, or even its deeper layer, or on the surface do a more thorough deconstruction, or something along those lines.

就是因为它可能并不单单地只是图像和信息这么简单，它有一些历史。 其实我的一个想法是，我们是否要呈现它的中间层，或者甚至是呈现它的深层，或者说我们在它的表层去做一个更彻底的解构，或者就是类似这样一个问题。

Right. Secrets are a system. Like you said, for example, choosing a particular image, taking a secret image as an example, whether you mean the middle layer or the surface layer, do you mean the image itself? Because there is still— since we decided to use a secret image, why do we need to use it?

对。 秘密是一个系统。 就你说的，比如说针对一个选取某一个图，秘密图为例，你说的中间层也好，表层也好，指的都是这个图像本身的部分吗？ 因为还是有，既然我们决定去使用秘密图，但我们为什么要去使用秘密图呢？

Or should we not use other images? For example, little ads, or other things I just mentioned. Because it's an order of word order. Are you proposing a solution for it now, or are you proposing a completely different thinking about secrets for yourself? Yes. A thinking about secrets.

还是我们不用其他的这些图像？ 比如说小广告，或者说类似我随便举的其他的东西。 因为它是一个文字的语序的排列。 你现在是针对它的方案提出，还是说针对你自己完全提出另外一个关于秘密的思考？ 对。针对秘密的这个思考。

Because what I'm saying is, because I started from— like what kind of images we want to make, and thought from that angle. You want to build a production combination, right? Because I— yes, I'm in the production team. OK. I'm in the first team. Okay. So now you want to produce an image, and produce a secret image, or what?

因为其实我讲的是，因为我是从，就是我们要做什么图片，这个角度去思考的。就是你想做生产的一个组合，对不对？ 因为我是，对，我是生产组的。 OK。 我是第一组的。 好。 那然后你现在想生产一个图，然后是生产秘密图还是？

So I— so I'm confirming the images I produce, I want to know roughly what form they'll be presented in. Oh. I understand. But when I design this process, I may not have thought about it,

所以我在，所以我在确认我生产的图片，我可能大概想知道它会以什么样的方式去呈现出来。 哦。 我理解。 但是就是我设计这个流程，我可能没有想过，

I only considered that the image already contains text, and that it might be just a passage of text, placed in different places, and it might vary. So I didn't really consider the factors behind it. But if I feel you want to emphasize,

我只考虑到了可能它这个本来图像里面带有这个文字，那它可能就是某一段文字，它放在不同的地方里面，它可能有不同。 所以其实我没有考虑它背后的那个因素。 但是如果我觉得你们想就是去强调，

or show the image itself to everyone, what its source is,

或者是想去向大家展示这个图像本身，它背后的一个来源是什么，

I think we could add a bit of a populareducation segment on this website. For example, if we ultimately generate a short clip, we can open up the back of the image, and we can see its origin, how it may have formed. In the end, generating it depends on your own understanding,

我觉得也可以在这个网站里面加一个这个有一点像是科普向的一个环节吧。就比如说我们最后生成了一个短片，我们可以翻开这个图像背后，然后我们可以看到它的来历啊，它可能是怎么形成的呀。 其实最后生成是根据你自己的那种理解去，

for example, subjectively, what you ultimately create already has your own interpretation. Because not everyone can understand it, like when you talk about the origin of secret images, not everyone can engage within that circle. Because what I'm curious about is, for example, we provide a— because we might provide all kinds of different images,

比如主观，你最后生成的东西其实你已经有自己的解读了。 因为并不是每个人能理解到，比如说你说秘密图起源这种，其实并不是每个人能涉及到这个圈内的。 因为我好奇的是，比如我们提供的是一张，就是因为我们可能会提供各种不同的图片，

say we don't provide a secret image, or we provide something that everyone can understand, a secret image that makes you laugh at first glance,

比如说如果我们提供的不是一张秘密图，然后或者说比如我们提供的是一个类似所有人都能理解、一看就能笑的一张秘密图，

or else it's something like— It might be something like this, a secret image not everyone can see, and when you customize them together, you have to imagine— when it's presented like this, you may face different situations. Like, how would you go about it? Wait, wait.

然后又或者是它是一张类似。 它可能是一张类似这样的，就并不是所有人都能见到的秘密图，把它们定制在一块的时候，你有去设想，就是当它这样呈现的时候，可能会面对不同的情况。 就是你是会怎么样去。 等一下，等一下。

Or generally. I think you might need to add this so it can be included. Because you two— you two right now— I think what it's doing is: the power it just talked about runs from 1, 2, 3, or up to 3, 2, 1. Up and down. Upward or downward? Right. You're—say you're the firsttier production team,

或者一般。 我觉得你们可能要这个可以让它加入一下。因为你们俩，你们俩就现在，我觉得就是它在做的是刚刚它讲的这个权力的是从1、2、3还是到3、2、1的这个过程。 就是上下。 向上还是向下？ 对。你是，比如说你是第一层生产组吧，

so if your idea now is for the third team to decide what kind of images the first team provides, Actually, I don't— I don't want to interfere, I just want you to— But you're already doing this now, and I think that's pretty good. And it also confirms what it just said, so should we let it hear what you're saying too?

那如果你的意思现在就是要让第三组决定来那个第一组提供什么样的图。 其实我没有，我没有想要干涉，我只是想让你。 但是你们现在已经在做这个事情了，我觉得挺好的。而且就印证了它刚刚讲的，所以要不要让它也听一下你们在讲什么？

That's my suggestion. It's listening. Oh, OK, OK, OK. Actually, this system itself is kind of like this. It won't require you to restrict the organizing party. In the end, the choice— or the composition—is actually something you decide yourself. In my view, your three teams are a completely independent, closed system,

我是这个建议。 它在听。 哦，OK，OK，OK。 其实这个系统本身就有点像这样。 并不会要求限制你的那个组委方。它最终选择，或者是组成其实就是你自我决定的。 其实在我看来，你们这三个组完全独立封闭的系统，

where everyone can, after working independently, throw out a problem to— the two remaining teams, and they need to solve it in a more independent way. But— what I'm saying is, do you have a plan to make adjustments when facing change, or something similar? I know.

就是每个人都可以在独立的工作之后抛出一个难题给，就是剩下两个组，然后他们需要通过更独立的方式去解决。但是就是，就是我可能说的是，就是，就是你们是否有一个面对变化会去做调整的预案，或者类似就是。 我知道。

Sure. I'm curious. It's like, "Yeah, sure," you can include this in our consideration range, and we can improve it further. Thank you very much. Right now, actually, nobody is opposed to this mechanism. Right. Actually, it's more like— I'm not— I'm not— I'm not going to interfere. Actually, no. Right,

可以。 我有一个好奇。 就是可以吧，你这个纳入我们的一个考虑区间，我们可以再改善。 那非常感谢了。 现在其实没有人反对这个机制。 对。 其实更多的是。 我没有在。 我没有，我没有要干涉。 其实没有。 对，

I just think it's really interesting, so I think this point is quite interesting, because there are a lot of situations that could happen.

我只是觉得很有意思，所以就是我觉得这个点蛮有意思的，因为有很多就是可能会发生的情况。

So today's question is: the part where you want to express your emotions. Maybe something paranormal.

今天的问题。 你想表情的部分。 可能灵异。